bjornwilde: (01: ahsoka CWs1)
bjornwilde ([personal profile] bjornwilde) wrote in [community profile] ways_back_room2017-06-15 09:16 pm
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Friday DE: Worlds mapping's midnight somewhere and my morning promises to be busy. Have an early DE.

I just recently finished Seanon McGuire's Every Heart a Doorway, which is a sort of love letter to the many portal fantasy stories of literature. In it, there is a classification system for the various portal worlds:
"Here in the so-called “real world” you have north, south, east, and west, right? Those don’t work for the most of the portal worlds we’ve been able to catalog. So we use other words. Nonsense, Logic, Wickedness, and Virtue. There are smaller sub-directions, little branches, but those four are the big ones. Most worlds are either high Nonsense OR high Logic, and then they have some degree of Wickedness or Virtue built into their foundations from there. A surprising number of Nonsense worlds are Virtuous. It’s like they can’t work up the attention span necessary for anything more vicious than a little mild naughtiness."

Which got me wondering how our canon worlds might sit on the map, and low and behold, I found has already done my work for me.
So here is how the grid works:
y axis = Virtue 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3 Wickedness
x axis = Nonsense 3, 2, 1, 0, 1, 2, 3 Logic

Nonsense vs Logic Axis
Nonsense 3 = Environment completely pliable and redefinable. Change motivated by personal whim. Near-chaos. Examples include: The Dreaming from Neil Gaiman’s Sandman.
Nonsense 2 = World on the tipping point between fantastical chaos and realistic environments. Examples include: Oz.
Nonsense 1 = Reality is pliable through wish fulfillment, but cause and effect actions are still most effective. Examples include: Neverland from the Peter Pan tales.
Nonsense/Logic 0 = Stasis, no change occurs in world.
Logic 1 = Most things follow rules of cause-and-effect but there is still doubt as to how many things follow rules. Examples include: Lyra’s world from The Golden Compass.
Logic 2 = Everything can be explained eventually, but there will always be unique exceptions. Examples include: Our own world!
Logic 3 = Everything can be explained, no exceptions to rules. Examples include: Narnia, and most any other world where its god/creator has a direct influence.

Virtue vs Wicked axis
Virtue 3 = Pure and providential, world provides everything you need. Is in an “ideal” state. Examples include: Narnia once Aslan’s control is restored.
Virtue 2 = Overriding harmony in world, active championing of human/being rights, but still threatened. Examples include: L. Frank Baum’s Oz, after the Wicked Witch and Wizard are taken out of power.
Virtue 1 = World provides for its denizens but in a limited capacity, passive promotion of human/being rights. Could be seen as only slightly better than our own world. Examples include: UnLunDun, from China Mieville’s book of the same name.
Virtue/Wicked 0 = Balance between virtuous and wicked desires, but not harmony. Examples include: The Dreaming from Neil Gaiman’s Sandman.
Wicked 1 = Unbalanced. Passive or secondary limiting of human/being rights. Examples include: Our own world!
Wicked 2 = Overriding disharmony. Active limiting of its denizens. “Crapsack World” but livable. Examples include: Narnia when the White Witch is in power.
Wicked 3 = Actively malevolent, apocalyptic, near-unredeemable, near-unlivable. Examples include: The Dark Tower.

More details are here, as well as many examples.
fairy_fixit: Fairy Fixit's chathead from in-game(Runescape) (face)

[personal profile] fairy_fixit 2017-06-16 05:40 am (UTC)(link)
Fairy Fixit: I reeeeeaally question the usefulness of such a classification. Would not the answer vary from person to person based on their exposure to magic science and social statu-

shakemyhand: (Default)

[personal profile] shakemyhand 2017-06-16 05:47 am (UTC)(link)
bwhahah, Kill IT WITH FIRE!!!!!!!!!
inlovewithwords: (collide)

[personal profile] inlovewithwords 2017-06-16 06:27 am (UTC)(link)
Eriond: definitely Logic 1, not really certain about the other.

Evelyn: Logic 1 or 2, probably 2 eventually but we don't have the information yet (c'mon, BioWare, help us out); Wicked 2 or 3 with the PCs desperately trying to push it toward Virtue.

Lois: Logic... 2 or 1. I would say straight up 2--it's basically our world--except for that whole, you know, superhero thing so maybe 1; Wicked 1, more or less, for similar reasons.

R2 and Anakin: ... So very tempted to say Nonsense 1, but if it isn't, Logic 1; Wicked 2.

Tavi: Logic 2. . . gosh. Uh. Alera bops around from Wicked 1 to 2 to 3 briefly. Post-canon it's in a strange place where it is more positive but recovering from apocalypse, so might balance out to 0 (unbalanced but trying to push positive). Once they get past the food shortage and out of the immediate aftereffects of the war, Virtue 1 with Tavi forever trying to push that number higher.
Edited 2017-06-16 06:28 (UTC)
angry_friendship_wolf: (Default)

[personal profile] angry_friendship_wolf 2017-06-16 01:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Yamato and Gabumon: The Analog World is basically our world (and a pretty critical take on our world, at that), so it's Logic 1 and Wicked 1. The Digital World is, like, Nonsense 2.2 (has very few clear rules but follows a sort of internal logic, very pliable but not constantly changing) and usually Virtue/Wicked 0. The Dark Ocean is Nonsense 2.5 and Wicked 3, being an actively malevolent and possibly sapient Lovecraft world.

Hawke: Like Lee said, Logic 1 or 2, Wicked 2 or 3 -- where exactly it falls on that spectrum probably hinges on what we learn about it in the next few games.

Eden: The Kingdom Hearts universe as a whole is Nonsense 1, Virtue 1 (maybe Virtue 2 on a good day). Daybreak Town itself is Nonsense/Logic 0 at the start but creeps higher and higher up the Nonsense scale as Chi's story goes on, and Virtue/Wicked 0 at the start and becomes steadily more Wicked as the story goes on. (Insert joke about how Kingdom Hearts Nonsense/Logic 0 is probably the title of the next remaster.)

Sherral: Ivalice is very firmly Logic 1, and until recently was also firmly Wicked 2 -- it's now dropped to something like Wicked 1.5.
Edited 2017-06-16 13:21 (UTC)
have_no_mercy: (Default)

[personal profile] have_no_mercy 2017-06-16 01:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I was told there would be no math.
cottoncandypink: (Default)

[personal profile] cottoncandypink 2017-06-16 05:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Wilford's world scores high on Logic. Somewhere between 2 and 3, and probably closer to 3. Everything about it seems like utter nonsense from the outside, but the nonsense is defined by very strict rules that can be exploited, but not changed or bent.

As for the Virtue/Wicked axis, I have no idea. It depends on where you are. And the day. And what house the moon is in, and whether the local gods have received satisfactory offerings. And whether or not you've slipped into a pocket dimension without noticing. That kind of thing.
bringspeopletogether: ([misc] in another life)

[personal profile] bringspeopletogether 2017-06-16 05:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Thedas (Alistair): Definitely agree that it's Logic 1 or 2, but a little closer to Wicked 2 than Wicked 3? Wicked 2.4, maybe?. I'm pretty sure that's because I'm comparing it to my other characters' worlds, though, which...well. COME WITH ME ON THE JOURNEY, FRIENDS.

BSGverse (Gaeta): Logic 1.5-ish; it'd be firmly Logic 2 if it weren't for that pesky final season. On the other scale: Wicked 1 at the very beginning of the series, hardcore Wicked 3 for the majority of the remainder, maaaaybe edging back up to Wicked 1 at the very end.

Snowpiercer (Curtis): Logic 2.5 -- it's a strictly controlled mechanical environment, and while you get little moments like Yona's precognition, they've been explained as her being a train baby who's sensitive to movements/noises in a way others aren't. And, uh. Wicked ten point billion? Can we go that high? Post-apocalyptic, devastating inequality and exploitation, if you ever escape from the train you'll freeze to death...everyone is fucked.

tl;dr how did I end up with a roster where Maker-damned Thedas is the least wicked world on the spectrum, good lord.
exiled_heir_of_the_eighth: (Default)

[personal profile] exiled_heir_of_the_eighth 2017-06-16 07:55 pm (UTC)(link)
40k is Nonsense 3, Wicked 3. Let's face it, it's an inhospitable, crazy, messed-up hellhole of a deathscape.
rosetintedbubbles: (Intent Steven)

[personal profile] rosetintedbubbles 2017-06-17 12:19 am (UTC)(link)
Ooh, interesting! That chart is very tempting to print...

The Steven Universe/Crystal Gem 'Verse/ Whatever is a pretty solid 2 on the logic front-- pretty much exactly like ours, pretty much everything can be explained, even if the explanation isn't known yet--but I'm not quite sure about Morality Axis. Earth at least seems to be a notch kinder and gentler than our own world, but Gem Society is definitely a Wicked2 if not a W3. Still, the narrative force is all on the side of kindness, forgiveness and the Power of Friendship, and that's probably the deciding factor; overall probably a Virtue 1 universe, though a determined dictator can fight that for a while...

Gringoire's Paris is Dark Gothic Paris; there's definitely a reason everything happens, Fate is real (Logic 3, I guess) and the reason things happen is usually is Fate Hates You. Kiiind of a crapsack world, what with the wars and the guiding Cosmic Force being a jerk--Wicked 2, probably.

Joly and Bahorel come from a world that , depending on how you look at it,is either just "ours, but the 19th century (Logic 2,Virtue/Wickedness...highly debatable)", but the narrative is pretty insistent on Divine Forces Behind Everything, so... Logic 3? And probably still kind of a crapsack Wicked 2 world, but with an emphatic promise that things can and (because of Divine Will) must improve, though it will require enormous amounts of work and possibly you and all your best friends dying on a furniture wall.
myriadbeautiful: The god Guthix. Kind of a horned Yeti? (God Guthix)

[personal profile] myriadbeautiful 2017-06-17 01:49 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, a little more seriously....

Yes, it varies from person to person (and author/developer to author/developer). The absurdity/logical rigidity is on a very obvious bell curve depending on education and experience in science, magic, and magic science. There is a sweet spot where everything makes sense and the laws of nature are perfectly discoverable. But on the tails of the distribution are people who are at the mercy of the capricious whims of the universe and the creator goddesses who wrote up this b.s. because they needed something to eat later but lost the recipe and can't agree on how it went and left half-baked worlds lying everywhere and now there's flies and ants everywhere, ffs.

Virtue/Wickedness depends on where you live, but the answer is 2. It is always 2. You would think that averages to a nice, neutral 0 but no, it's a 2 despite (or maybe because) of the efforts of an actual god of Balance.