ways_back_room | DE: The fly in your soup

HAHAHA OH MY GOD.

It's impossible to hold any opinions whatsoever about Javert and/or Valjean without being unpopular in some way. You're either a Javert Apologist, Wrong About Javert or oppressing Jean Valjean by liking Javert at all. If you write Valjean as anything other than a quiet man striving to do his best, with moments of badassery, then you are Wrong About Valjean and immediately condemned to being Wrong forever, and slagged off in the anon memes created for this purpose.

As such, every single opinion I have on either of them is Wrong, and unpopular in some way.

(Les Mis fandom may come off as harsh in this. That's because it kinda is...and the JVJ half of it is probably calmer than the Amis side, though Gen would know more about that than me. But! It's only a hard fandom because people care, and there are fans who are really well-read, and study the book at high academic levels, and whatnot. Plus, there are so many adaptions, and interpretations, and actors involved, to argue about; no one's going to be able to have opinions that are popular all the time.)

Edited 2013-12-09 14:09 (UTC)

1. I think I'm pretty much the entirety of the Joshua Donovan fandom, so possibly my great love for Joshua is uncommon. Also, I think he's hella underused and underrated as a character.

2. I don't really ship Helena/Myka. Which puts me at odds with 75% of the Warehouse 13 fandom. I could go into my reasons, but I just don't think they really work as a lasting couple. One of Helena's conquests, sure, but what Myka needs is someone who's less broken.

3. VALENTINE WIGGIN IS NOT WEAK, OK? I've been fighting the Ender fandom for years on that one. Empathic does not mean weak. Rumour has it that I actually reminded Card about that fact. (I have fairly good evidence that he's read my Valentine threads at Milliways)

4. Fantine... I don't honestly know much about the Les Mis fandom other than what I've seen here. Anyone else more connected to the fandom have ideas?

5. And now, for my new/old character: MARK. Kinda like Helena, I don't ship him with Roger. I don't think either of them would take that risk. Something platonic and sexless, I could possibly get behind, but not fucking like rabbits.

I actually like Gaeta and think he had more motivation for the mutiny beyond "oh he's just bitter he lost his leg?" *weak grin*

(Being in fandom during the mutiny arc was INTERESTING, let me tell you.)

I haven't seen much Fantine-related drama, though it may be that I'm just not looking in the right corners. Mostly what I've seen is the usual fandom tendency to forget that female characters exist, in favor of arguing about which dudes are sleeping with which other dudes. :-/

(COMICS)Dick is not promiscuous!

Fandom (and Chuck Dixon) seems to think he's the JLA's bicycle, but he's just not. He's a massively hopeless romantic-slash-serial monogamist who just wants a stable girlfriend! Kory was the best thing that ever happened to him, and he lost that, and ever since he's been trying to replace that. Including being kind of clingy/disrespectful of boundaries with Babs, and latching onto Helena. He slept with Helena once and thought they were now boyfriend/girlfriend.

Ming you, he is an insatiable flirt. That dog.

*unrepentant Dick/Kory shipper*

-eta- Young Justice Dick *is* a total manwhore, though. And there's nothing wrong with that! Except that he's in love with Kaldur, obviously.

Edited 2013-12-09 14:26 (UTC)

I don't think Knox HAS a fandom. There is someone on the AV Club's message boards named Alexander Knox (who is of course a big comic book reader), and I think he is the extent of my pup's fandom. I keep waiting for someone to include Knox in a Batman property. It isn't happening. At this point, he's forgotten and the 1989 Batman film is a small part of the bigger picture.

I sort of diverge in terms of Kirk, as a lot of people insist he's the world's biggest ego and its greatest babehound. Even though even Bones wonders about Jim's animal magnetism in Star Trek VI, Jim didn't sleep with nearly as many women as people think, and he actually had a tendency to fall in love too easily and end up heartbroken. As for his ego...yeah, he has one. But it's tempered at least in his old age.

And I suppose the fact that I love what I've seen of the current funy Teen Titans cartoons puts me at odds with fans who loved the first series and hate the new one. I loved the first series, too. But the funny version is, well, funny. And has the original cast. And is just plain fun. Is it the original? No. Would I like to see it back. Yes. Does the new one demean old? Not one bit. Besides, I have a screengrab of Cyborg in a hat. How can you go wrong with that?

Hmmmmm. So in some ways, Dick is like Jim Kirk (see below)?

I'm a Dick/Babs shipper but possibly only because I missed Dick/Kory in its prime.

Actually, I wanted Dick/Clancy.

Terrible temper = dumb. No, really, do you know how hard it is to find fic about Hotspur that isn't painting him as some sort of inarticulate spoiled hooligan? Like, privileged I will absolutely give you, but the rest of it... sigh.

Gaeta's whole arc, to me, was about what happens to an idealist who gets caught up above his head.

Yeah, most of what I've seen/read/heard is more along the lines of 'poor Fantine, you got a bad rap, now let's talk about Amis sex.' Oh, well.

Fantine, forgotten even in fandom. *hugs her*

I stay very far away from most of my fandoms, because I fear them. I do not know what the popular and unpopular opinions are, for the most part. I can tell you that while I freely admit Fallout New Vegas is probably a better game, I personally liked the story and the setting in Fallout 3 better. I also think that it is perfectly possible to call yourself a Fallout fan without denouncing FO3 and New Vegas (as the old school top-down isometric-grid made-by-Interplay fans tend to do) or thinking that the original games were weird/not good (as I'm told some of the FO3/NV fans do).

I also admit to a certain measure of not being sure whether I actually want to see Half-Life 3 made or not. At this point, I'm not sure anything Valve could make could live up to the fans' hopes and expectations, and frankly I'm dreading the possibility that Valve's HL team decides to end the series with an End of Evangelion-style WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK ending- so I may be the only Half-Life fan around who doesn't actually want to see HL 3 confirmed.

Ahahahahaha.

Thor is not dumb, oblivious, poptart-obsessed, inclined to talking loudly about his sex life, an overgrown golden retriever (I mean, in some ways yes, but only in some), ZOMG MEAN to Loki, or inclined to demand that everyone else forgive Loki everything. These opinions put me at odds with 90% of people who write Thor in fic.

Enjolras... oh lordy. Okay, no, the main way in which I am at odds with other people in book-specific fandom is that I don't ship the juggernaut pairing; I find Enjolras and Grantaire's dynamic complicated and fascinating, but I do not want them to be boyfriends, and I do not think Enjolras wants them to be boyfriends. (Whether even Grantaire does is a complicated question, and that one I will leave to Becca.) So that's fairly unpopular/uncommon for people in the Amis side of fandom! Wider fandom, let's not talk about. As Write says, it's a big fandom with a bunch of STRONG OPINIONS and STRONG FACTIONS, and a lot of adaptations with different takes on the characters to draw on, and there's no way to hold opinions on some characters without being unpopular in some way. I write aggressively Hugo-specific stuff and skate by the edges of the wank, mostly.

Trowa... hmm. I'm not sure! I ship him with the fandom-popular pairing, for once, so there's that out of the way. There's a lot of badly written Trowa fic out there, but that's not the same thing.

Clare: I have no idea what Claymore fandom at large is up to, or how my opinions on Clare stack up against fanon.

Regan has no fandom. (Regan barely has canon, to be fair.)

River, again, is in a fandom I have never paid all that much attention to in a broader sense, and it's not a terribly active fandom nowadays... Oh, I can say very definitely that I am not a Tamcest shipper, and that was a big thing for a while. Augh.

Edited 2013-12-09 15:03 (UTC)

Yeah, and/or "poor Fantine, her life and death were so tragic, OKAY MOVING ON BACK TO VALJEAN AND JAVERT'S TRUE LOVE." Which, Valjean and Javert are both fantastic characters and I'm fond of them both, and obviously I love the Amis, but yeah.

Yes! Exactly! And also, like -- the entire point of the show is to muddle in gray areas. The fact that people got so reductivist on Gaeta's motivations and turned it into something that was "Gaeta is 100% wrong, Adama and Roslin are 100% right" frustrates the heck out of me.

(Gaeta was wrong to take such extreme actions; I won't deny that. But it's not like Adama and Roslin were on the side of angels either.)

Oh, and because I can't edit.

LET US NOT TALK ABOUT WIGGINCEST. GAHHHHHHH.

I don't think Sherlock is a virgin, and I don't think he's madly in love with John. At least, not in that way. Both of these opinions can get you tarred and feathered in certain corners of the Internet.

*waves the flag of 'I don't ship the main ship of my fandom*

Welcome to the club. I have a few shields here if you need one.

(I don't know if it's calmer, or if it's just that things get expressed differently. I mean, I honestly don't know, because I'm pretty peripheral to the JVJ half. But as you say! If I didn't like Les Mis fandom, I would not be in it -- and I'm never in fandoms properly, I usually run away from them at high speed to only read fic I'm recced, so there's a lot in this one that I really do appreciate.

It's just that there are a lot of people caring strongly, in lots of different ways, about lots of different versions, and with lots of perspectives and ways of interacting with fandom, and some of them mesh better with mine than others. So, basically, what you said!)

...Huh. You know, I don't have very many unpopular opinions about the characters I play. Odd, since I've got unpopular opinions in a lot of things I'm a fan of.

Jim: I don't think Blazing Saddles really even HAS a "fandom," per se. Just a lot of people who've seen the movie and like it. Not too many people talk about it on the Internet. And I can pretty much guarantee you I'm the only person RPing as the Waco Kid.

Leela: The closest thing I have to an unpopular opinion that relates in some way to Leela is my belief that The Sun Makers is NOT a right-wing story. I mean, sure, you can view it that way if you focus on the part with the taxes and ignore everything else in it, but it's also about the fusion of state and corporate interests and oppression of the working class, and the Doctor saves the day by helping to incite a proletarian revolution. Robert Holmes was not a Marxist, obviously, but he certainly can't be pigeonholed as a Tory, either.

I imagine whatever controversy exists surrounding Leela would have to do with the Gallifrey line of audios, which I'm not at all far into. Part of the reason why it's slow going is that Gallifreyan politics bore me a little. Pretty much everybody agrees with me that Leela staying with Andred on Gallifrey makes no goddamn sense, though from what I've seen, future writers and fandom have done their best with what they were given.

Caius and Garyn: I'm a member of the esoteric "Deep Lore" segment of Elder Scrolls fandom. Some people don't like this part of lore - usually people who are unusually infatuated with the idea that some made-up events are more real than others. (Even if I cared about "canonicity," it's not as if most of these theories aren't backed up in some way by clues and texts that appear in-game). But my views generally fit in with fan orthodoxy. Most Elder Scrolls fans are either on board with deeplore or are unaware that it even exists.

One opinion I do have: I don't think the final fate of the Nerevarine will be revealed in a future Elder Scrolls game. I think that the big epic that Michael Kirkbride is releasing in a few months will take care of that. I do have a suspicion of what his/her final fate was (becoming the Second Amaranth), and I'm not the only one who believes it. Many, many others disagree, though, and to be honest, I almost expect to get Jossed on this.

Kane: Here's where I'd almost like to say I'm part of that subset of C&C fandom that is insistent on the fact that the Brotherhood of Nod is a terrorist organization and not to be admired. And sure, they basically are. I mean, I understand the basis behind this contrarian impulse - they kill people. Lots of people. And subject them to medical experiments. Still, I have to go along with fan orthodoxy here - evil as their methods are, Nod is just so much more interesting and fun. My views on how the canon fits together (or more accurately, how it doesn't) might spark some debate, though. I don't think anyone is going to take umbrage with my decision to ignore Tiberian Twilight, though.

My real crackpot theory about Kane is one I'm still working on, concerning the question of whether Kane is the actual Biblical Cain or just an alien from space. (Short answer: why not both?)

Edited 2013-12-09 21:59 (UTC)

I don't really hang out at forums so most of this is going to be based on what I see on Tumblr or what is published.

Jessica Drew: I hate Clint/Jess. It had its cute moments but over all the pairing did nothing for me. I also like her as an agent of S.W.O.R.D. I'm really on the fence about her and Carol as a couple. I know in the past I've loved it and thought there was a subtext there but I also am not a fan of how any close relationship has to be romantic.

Thalia: Shipping her with anyone, but especially Luke. They may have grow to be that way had things been different but I see them as more brother/sister than romantic. Also any boy ship after Titan's Curse would involve her breaking an oath and she just doesn't do that. That said, I can see an argument for her and Nico if he didn't already have a crush.

Hank: About the only thing I can think of is fans thinking he hates Raven, or thinks she manipulated him, post canon. The Hank (in my head) that is left with the broken pieces *knows* he is as much to blame as she is, if not more to blame.

Mulan: I don't think she loves Philip in a romantic way, I think she sees him as a shield brother. I also don't do OT3s.

Andrea Nash: Apparently some fans didn't think she deserved her own book. This comes from the Good Reads group and is why I don't post there. I don't need to shank people on the internet. ; p

Edited 2013-12-09 15:30 (UTC)

My understanding is that End of Evangelion was basically Hideaki Anno spiraling into clinical depression and taking it out on his audience rather than getting therapy. No, if Valve fucks up HL 3, it's gonna be by making it so you can't defeat the Combine without buying a bunch of stupid hats.

Yugo - tbh, the only thing I can think of is that a lot of people in fandom think that Phoenix can be redeemed with enough care and love, and I'm not certain he can. Yugo is flufflesdorable, it's true, and Phoenix is very similar to Yugo and clearly a lot more empathetic and affectionate than the average Phantom, but Phoenix has a habit of snapping and trying to commit mass murder with absolutely no warning signs. I think that represents a pretty massive barrier to any redemptive process.

Sherral is so minor that he has no fandom.

Idk, what are fandom's opinions on Wan?

No, Vanellope does not belong on the "Disney Princesses" roster, because SHE DELIBERATELY CHOSE NOT TO BE A PRINCESS. WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT TO INVALIDATE THAT CHOICE.

When I used to lurk on the Television Without Pity boards while "Rescue Me" was on the air, people really loved to hate Tommy. I can't blame them, really, but when it got to the point where people started to complain that they couldn't watch the show anymore because they hated him so much, I was just like...okay, just change the channel then. They got too frustrated with his alcoholism and his repeated failure to get his shit together family-wise, and that's why they didn't like him. And to me, that constant struggle is what Tommy is all about, period. They didn't see anything redeemable about him. I did, and still do. So he's not the most lovable, endearing character like Lou (everyone loved Lou), but I rooted for him because he didn't get that love.

Edited 2013-12-09 15:54 (UTC)

For the same reason Mulan in the Disney Princesses line (never mind that she's not even marrying a nobleman, let alone a prince or king) is depicted in the dress they stuffed her into for the matchmaker catastrophe at the start of the movie. They want girly and BY GOD they'll ignore everything awesome about the character in order to get their girly.

Edited 2013-12-09 15:53 (UTC)

DE: The fly in your soup

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