ways_back_room | (no subject)

(no subject)

As ~~most~~ some of you know the Forest is actually part of the Dreaming. Unless animals have been brought in (Belar's deer and the demon bunnies spring to mind) the animals within are also part of the Dreaming. That's why anything can be found if you look hard enough.

I bring this up because Dream is, canonically, fond of birds and the bird-privilege was abused.

For the time being, there are no birds in the forest unless someone brings some in from outside.

This isn't saying I'm pissed off. This is just saying that those birds which were Dream's are not there anymore because someone was shooting birds. Please don't assume I'm angry: I'm not. Please don't assume I'd be pissed if you didn't know about the Dreaming-forest relationship, it was a long time ago and I have asked about it getting into the FAQ but there have been more important things for the mods to deal with.

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Hey, this might be a good opportunity to clarify that a little. Because... I've been around some time now, and while I knew that if you went back into the forest far enough you'd hit the Dreaming, I always thought the regular forest around the lake was from Scotland like the rest of it.

Either way, there's nothing in the FAQ about origin of forest/animals in forest so I think this is probably just a case of confusion rather than abuse.

Killing the birds is bird abuse.

Back when the grounds were made the player who made them stated over and over that she did not make any forest at all.

I wouldn't argue the first statement, but it's not only the one player who was unaware of this. I honestly thought that the forest was partly natural woods and part of it of the Dreaming, too. Nor is it wilful ignorance: I've tried to access the oldest posts, from Milliways' being founded, through the archives. I can't always manage it. LJ puts up a real struggle when I do. Much less find a specific post. It might be better if the FAQ was modified, then?

I don't have any control over the FAQ, just the Dreaming. I suggest talking to the mods about that.

This was my understanding as well...if you traveled deep enough into the forest, then you ventured into the dreaming, but that the edges of the forest were public domain, and just normal trees. I have been in the game for over two years, and was not here for the creation of the forest, but have never heard anything about the animals being part of the dreaming.

I don't know if this was changed at some point, or just misconstrued by pretty much everyone. I know that my characters own an owl that has spent time out in the grounds and forest, and I could swear that there were turleducks out on the lake at one time. *shrugs*

I dont' think it's a surprise that players (even ones who have been here for a while) might not know about the animals being part of the dreaming.

...I've been here since the bar was three months old and I thought the same thing about the forest as you did.

Ditto here on the don't go too far into the forest since you enter the Dreaming then. But no specific barrier, and didn't know anything about animals either.

Oi Mods?

Can we get some clarification on this for newer and not so new members who weren't here for when the outdoors was created?

The turtleducks were, I think, brought. Anything brought in is still there, only the birds that were not brought in by PCs are gone.

Turtleducks weren't 'brought' per se, by Zuko -- he was just the first person to find them. They were just there, in the lake.

So they could be Dreaming, or they could be... natural. Who can say? Animals hav to get to Milliways somehow.

See icon! There were totally turtleducks in the lake.

Still are.

Yay! I shall have to make it a point to have my pups notice them!

They are quite tame and love to be fed. There are five.

Okay, all I'm saying is that not everyone who's here now was here then. And if you go to the FAQ, the only thing it says about the bar surroundings is:

Well, it’s nebulous. There are gardens and lawn furniture, thanks to Asar-Suti. There are stables on one side. There is a greenhouse. And there is a forest. Seasons follow current earth seasons. It’s just easiest that way, and we tend to sort-of follow Scotland’s weather patterns, but not precisely by any means. For instance, it rarely rains, and yet things are green and nice during the spring and summer. Explanation? Magic.

If you weren't around for the creation of the grounds, all you know is there's a forest, and it's not unreasonable to think said forest might have birds that were generally there for whatever, much like the trees and all.

I'm not saying she should have shot the birds or Dream shouldn't react in any way, just that I don't think this was a personal attack on Dream's creation as much as confusion over bar surroundings and what can be done with them.

And I'm not saying it was an attack. I'm just saying that Dream likes birds, the birds were being shot, the birds are not there right now.

The many players who chimed in here are, to the best of my knowledge, correct -- the Dreaming does not start until quite far back in the forest. So no, not all of the animals are part of the Dreaming.

In that case the original Peter Pettigrew's player told me erroneously when she was talking to me back when Peter made the grounds. I will readjust my understanding to include that.

AFAIK, that's not something Peter's player ever fully articulated to the mods, so we -- and the majority of players, it would seem -- have been operating under a different assumption.

Just for the record, the reason we have not included more specific descriptions of the physical Milliways space is because we didn't want to limit the possibilities, or rule out anyone's visions of it. Clearly defining the entire forest as the Dreaming seems, to me at least, to be a very limiting thing, even though it can produce any animal imaginable; it also places a large swath of space under the control of one player, which -- no matter who the player is -- we're not keen on.

As stated, I am adjusting to do what you have told me. I'm not happy about having the last nearly three years of play invalidated and turned into me godding, but I'm doing it and I won't argue with you.

Cool your jets, please, Madb. No one's invalidating your play or accusing you of godding. All we're doing is clarifying things, not retconning the whole of millicanon or even any of it. Don't make it into something it's not.

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