ATTN: MOD POST

[sophistry]

By happy coincidence, this latest round of Mods Say Stuff is on the same topic as today's DE! This time, we're here to talk about two things:

1. Possible ways to play with the move IC. Bar-wide plot event, anyone?


2. What this might mean for retired characters, and the possible freeing-up thereof.

But mods! you say. These seem like pretty disparate topics! Why are we talking about them in the same post?

Well, I'm glad you asked.

Anyone brave enough to venture into the really really really really long list of fandoms from yesterday may have seen me mention in the comments that, as part of the move, we are going to be rebuilding the cast list from scratch. This is partly because we'll need a cast list that allows characters to be listed with both their DW journals and their old LJs, but also because - as those of you who were around for the last major cast list reboot may remember - it allows people to re-list their active and retired pups while sloughing off all the dead weight of dropped and abandoned characters.

SO. Here is what we are thinking:

In grand Milliways tradition, we have some kind of ridiculous bar-wide plot. The in-game end result of this plot is that Milliways gets shifted a few degrees along whichever wacky transmultiversal space-time axis it occupies. Because of Metaphysics™, this opens the bar up to thousands of additional new universes. Many of these are neighbour-universes to the ones it was already open to - that is, basically identical, except for the tiny detail that nobody in the new universes has ever found Milliways before.

What does this mean?

Everything that has happened in Milliways stays happened. It stays connected to all the universes it was connected to before (except as plottishly convenient for people wishing to retire characters by locking them out). No characters/game histories are retroactively erased (except if characters are deleted by muns). But now new versions of those characters - versions originating one universe over from the originals - can be apped.

OOCly, what would happen is this:

• We create a new cast list.
  
  


• Everyone adds the characters they are keeping active.
  
  


• Players (both current and ex-) will also have the opportunity to re-list characters that they really want to keep retired (in the sense that they cannot be apped by anyone else). Current players will also have the opportunity to re-list particular retired characters whose muns are long gone from the game. So, for example, if running into a new version of their retired BFF from long ago would break your character to the point of unplayability, and said BFF's old mun is nowhere to be found, you yourself will have the option to keep said BFF retired.
  
  


• However! We'd urge that people not go overboard in re-adding every retired character ever. Because.
  
  


• All previously retired characters who don't get added to the new cast list will then be appable under the 'one universe over' principle above.
  
  


• All older versions of characters will remain on a legacy version of the cast list (i.e., a copy of the version we have now), linked to from the main bar and/or comm profile.

So, there you have it. Thoughts? Questions? Worst idea ever? This isn't set in stone, so discussion is very welcome.

We're also entertaining suggestions for the aforementioned ridiculous plot, so if you've got a way that wacky transmultiversal axis-wobbling could be achieved (within a reasonable OOC timeframe, and not involving too much elaborate organisation on top of the impending DW move), we want to hear it!

If commenting with a plot suggestion, please put 'plot suggestion' or something similar in your subject line, so we can sort through them more easily.

Comments

Actually, I have a question

[oxfordtweed]

RE: Retired characters. At which point will we say, "OK, people have stopped adding characters to the list," and start allowing players to app currently-retired characters who don't get re-added to the list?

For instance, there's one I've been wanting to app for about two years, but his retired status has kept him out of reach, and I'm really hoping that the move will open him back up.

Re: Actually, I have a question

[sophistry]

That is a good question! The move as a whole will definitely have to involve a bunch of deadlines: date after which no new LJ-side posts will be made, date by which you have to have joined the DW comm before we turn membership back to moderated, date by which you have to have finished all your LJ-side slowtimes because we're doing one final re-import, etc. etc. And one of those deadlines will involve a cut-off point for re-adding characters to the new list.

Off the top of my head, the theoretical cast list deadline that makes the most sense is 'by the start of the first DW app cycle'? But depending on the actualfax dates of the move,* that might not necessarily be the case in reality.

*One reason things are slightly up in the air is that we're still waiting on dates for both community imports and the "claim an OpenID" function on DW. We want to encourage ex-players to back up retired characters and claim OpenIDs if at all possible, for archival/making-icons-show-up-properly purposes, and things will go infinitely more smoothly if we can just send off the one email saying, "Back up your stuff, claim your OpenID, re-add anyone you want to re-add, badda-bing, badda-boom, you're done," instead of, "Back up your stuff now, wait for another email telling you to claim your OpenID stuff at some unspecified point in time, etc. etc."

Once we have some definites on those functions, concrete dates should start falling into place relatively easily.

possible plot suggestion

[minkhollow]

So this will coincide nicely with something I was considering doing for Claudia anyway, so I'll hold off on that till we're moved. But that's not the plot suggestion.

The plot suggestion: If anyone wants to help me brainstorm possibly-responsible Artifacts, I could always have Claudia mess around with something in the bar and accidentally shift it. :D?
(If I played Valerie or someone else from VBN who actually uses magic, as opposed to Sam's passive use, there's canon dimensional theory that would serve our purposes. But with the characters I have, Claudia's easiest.)

ETA: --I THINK I HAVE SOMETHING. We're coming up on the W13/Eureka crossover episodes, after which Claudia has the Einstein Bridge Device. Which is pretty well broken per Eureka canon, but she might well attempt to fix it.
So if I get off my ass and make sure it's in the Warehouse near move time, she can bring it in whenever's OOCly convenient, and if some of the other science types want to help her poke at it, shenanigans can ensue!

[sdelmonte]

We can have a Crisis! Superboy Prime is punching the Fourth Wall!

(I've been reading too many DC comics.)

[djcati.livejournal.com]

Haha this comment gets my approval.

[agonistes]

As long as it is clear to characters in the bar that different versions can be a thing now -- public health poster campaign? something? -- I think this is a pretty good plan!

[sophistry]

I think this is pretty feasible, though it might depend on the mechanics of the plot. If it's the sort of thing that leaves everyone going, "Wait, wtf just happened?", it might take a while for characters to figure out that different versions are a thing that is happening; verso, if it's something Ray Stantz is involved with, he'll probably knock together some bleepy, scanny doohickeys, analyse the issue, and have a brief monograph printed up in pamphlet form by the end of the week.

But. Yes.

[bcgphoenix]

Two things:

1) I really like this idea a lot, though I'm with Sweeney when it comes to making sure, ICly, that pups know there's been a shift.

2) Olivia has a ton of canonical experience with neighboring/alternate worlds -- especially the idea of the same person, with slight variations, existing across multiple universes -- so if she can be of any use or assistance in the course of the plot? She is all yours. :D!

[rymenhild.livejournal.com]

As a long-retired player, I approve of this plan.

[jezrana.livejournal.com]

Seconded! It even gives me incentive to finally sort my characters into "there is actually a chance I might play them again someday" and "...yeah, no, I should give them up".

[wakeupnew]

As someone who just went through exporting about a million character journals to DW and literally had no idea which were and weren't still technically members at Milliways: I love this idea. It'll trim a ton of no-longer-played characters off the hilariously huge cast list, and will allow me to lazily just list the handful of characters that I want to play instead of being stuck laughing/swearing as I try to figure out which are active vs. inactive. Thumbs up!

[spiderine.livejournal.com]

As long as the basic layout of the Bar remains the same (especially the shrine to Cassandra and Sirius, of which both I and John are very fond), I think it's all good.

When will the DW milliways and ways_back_room comms be open?

[sophistry]

Yeah, Milliways itself should remain pretty much unchanged, barring any effects of the plot (scorch marks, eldritch horrors lurking in the third stall of the women's loo, a lingering smell of sulfur, what have you).

We don't know yet what dates we'll be officially making the move; we're still waiting for DW to fully open community imports and to enable the "claim an OpenID" functionality, or at least to give solid dates on when those are going to be happening. While we could theoretically stagger the move, we'd really rather get as much of it as possible done in a single push, rather than drag everything out until nobody can keep track of anything anymore.

Possible plot element/suggestion?

[ever_lovin]

Very soon on Ben Grimm's OOM horizon is him being possessed by Angrir the Breaker of Souls, who is a primordial Asgardian deity in the MU. I honestly keep going back and forth with bringing him into Milliways while is possessed but perhaps this can be part of the shake up?

It would give our god pups something on their level to deal with but I don't know how Milliways would survive such a fight which is why I keep arguing with myself.

[stillbecoming]

I like this idea. I also like the idea of trying to squeeze as many different canonical apocalypses/oshi--s/hilarious plot devices into it as possible. You know, in the spirit of panfandomdemonium. Like if anyone has an open plot device like a magical cauldron (just a bland example) and people tag into an open thread, arranging for their plot devices to all fall in on the same night/their magical characters to sneeze on it/that kind of thing ...

[stillbecoming]

Sophie I just saw your icon *dying*

[sophistry]

Also this is my favourite plot idea so far. Just putting that out there.

[wickedtrue.livejournal.com]

DUDE, I LOVE THIS! That means everyone can have a plot. BECAUSE THEY ALL HAPPENED. AT ONCE. :D!!

[sleightofhand]

I like this! A lot! It solves that panfandom problem of, "Oh, but the [insert magical artefact of ultimate whatever] from universe X can totally defeat the [insert ultimate evil creature with teeth] from universe Y!" Just use ALL THE APOCALYPSES!

[agonistes]

A+

YES PLEASE

[minkhollow]

And now, a question:
Can we use the One Universe Over clause to reboot a retired character? Because if there's interest - and a lot of people missed the first one, so I'd imagine there would be - I'd be happy to reboot Imp via this mechanism and do another Plot With Rocks In.

[sophistry]

Ooh. Hmmm. Yyyyyes, technically, if it was a 're-app' instead of a 'reboot'. I know it's just playing semantics, but I think we probably need to be careful about what precedents we set about who has control over what version of a character, if you follow me.

I think.

*squints*

[badninja.livejournal.com]

So all old versions of characters still happened, there's just new versions too that won't contradict?

I'm pretty sure you answered this question, but I just started a new psych medication so my ability to understand is a bit hampered and I really apologize. Mostly I'm confused by keeping retirements. If we're looking at new versions, why are we retiring anyone?

And I am so glad the bar is moving. Thank you. This just solves so many issues at hand.

[sophistry]

So all old versions of characters still happened, there's just new versions too that won't contradict?

That's pretty much it! No need to apologise; half the time, when I'm trying to talk about or reason out this stuff, I only end up making myself more confused.

As for why we're keeping some characters retired at all, the answer to that is baaaaasically:

1. It's a nice gesture for characters and players that have been a big part of game history, and with the rigmarole of re-adding characters, we're hoping that the only ones who get re-retired are the ones that people really have a genuine investment in keeping that way. To a limited extent, we're okay with honouring that. (Hence also asking people not to go overboard.)

2. For the same reason that we allow for reserving characters - to wit, running into them and/or dealing with the implications of them being in the bar and/or etc. etc. would be a major pain in the ass for both you and your pup, even if in this case, it would technically be an AU version.

Plottish suggestion like thing

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Considering that the Fool is... well the Fool and likely would go ahead and do something foolish... I think, or would like to offer him to help with causing whatever makes the Bar move.

Better: Vext the god of Mishap and Misfortune being mishapful and misfortunate.

[buongiornodaisy.livejournal.com]

o hai everybunny

I am a-OK with freeing up my characters for the move. If anyone wants to keep one of my pups retired, PM/IM/e-mail/reply to this comment or whatever to say why, but otherwise I'd reaaaaaaally like for new players to have a chance to crack their knuckles at characters I effed up played.

[vivien]

The idea of allowing new continuities to exist is a grand one!

I played a version of Dumbledore that was originally retired, and when I asked to take him off the retired list and saw someone else playing him in a different HP continuity, it made me really happy.

That being said, I am glad there will be options to keep the ones we can't let go.

YAY! I think this will really refresh the community!