DE:Are you a trollop or what?

[bjornwilde]

From chanter_greenie  :
This DE suggestion inspired by the fact that I recently spent forever looking for a DE I was sure had happened on a subject. I think I'd just remembered a handful of comments about an ashen relationship between Voodoo and Shephard, and my brain supplied a nonexistent DE from there. Anyway!

In the world of Homestuck, troll relationships fall into four quadrants. Looking at pups' relationships, your own or other people's, in bar or in canon, what quadrants do you see people having? For example there's a pretty good case to be made for Sariel Rager <> Dale Harding, as she's tasked herself as his protector.

jjprobert  also added: Link to the MSPA wiki page on troll relationships: http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Quadrants

Comments

[kd7sov]

I suppose you could make a case for Felix <3< Alex. Or maybe not, I've never gotten a real sense of how the black quadrants are supposed to work. In any case... A while back, I realized that Nepeta <> Equius has... kind of the same resonance, you might say, as Felix <3 Sheba.

I suppose I could see Kain as <3/<3< with Cecil.

Fluttershy doesn't have anything. But her relationship with Angel is not unlike the troll-Lusus arrangements we saw.

[shinyhappygoth]

In Robert Asprin's Myth-Adventures, "trollop" is in fact the feminine of "troll"...

I'm terribly afraid that Enzo <> Clem, or at least the potential is there.

[bjornwilde]

In Robert Asprin's Myth-Adventures, "trollop" is in fact the feminine of "troll"...

Someone got my reference!!! \o/

[batyatoon]

Yup, I got it too.

[shinyhappygoth]

As for the rest, well, Enzo <3 Dani, obviously. No specific <3< until we see Megabyte again, though he's the whole Matrix family's nemesis, so I'm not sure it applies on such a personal level. Likewise, Enzo feels a suitably burning hatred-tinged-with-respect for Dani's creator, Vlad, but mostly on her behalf. (When Enzo met Vlad, he shook his hand and then punched him very hard in the face, partly as a gambit to catch him off guard, but also because he genuinely wanted to do both.) Anyway, Vlad is in your typical heavy-duty supervillain jail now, so there's nothing active there.

[mnt_mike]

Now is the time when I out myself as someone who just doesn't understand Homestruck.

[bjornwilde]

Is this the corner for that? Here, I brought cookies!

[mnt_mike]

COOKIES!

I feel as though our corner should come with some clarification, at least on my end...because if there's one thing I have an absolute zero tolerance for these days its Fandom Negativity for the Sake of it.

I love the Homestruck fandom. The cosplay is as awesome as the fanarts! I just...can't wrap my brain around the source material.

[bjornwilde]

Same here! And I am sure it is awesome (at least if the cosplay and folks here are any indication). Please do not mistake my confusion for criticism or bashing!

[leeshajoy]

I... sort of understand it? In that I got several chapters in before giving up all hope of following what was going on, and now I just skim over the wiki every couple of weeks to catch up. ^^;

[genarti]

Yeah, same here. I am all for people loving it! I cannot wrap my brain around it.

Part of it is I really hate looking at anything animated to oscillate or shiver like a lot of the Homestuck art does. So I see it and I skim hastily by before it starts to make my eyes and brain ache, and that does not help reading comprehension at all. I'm sure it's way more visually interesting for people who can cope with that part of the design!

And part of it is just the sheer size of it. My god, folks, how do you keep up with all that?? I'm in awe!

[mnt_mike]

I want people to like...condense it for me. Heh. Can we get some cliff notes over here?!

[herr_bookman]

I'd like to submit my application to join this corner.

[misslucyjane]

Pretty much this.

[inlovewithwords]

As my bribe to join this corner, I submit this apple pie.

[bodldops]

*shuffles over to the corner* My fallback trick of 'stare at it until it clicks is not working' :(

[thebattycakes]

HAI.

Yes, this. My contribution to the corner is Pringles. Yay chips?

[death_gone_mad]

I know there are people that ship Amascut ♠ Yrael, but that is ridiculously one-sided since I doubt Yrael hates Amascut. He has denied it several times already, though Amascut accuses him of hating her and spying on her and being evil... you know what, Amascut herself ships Amascut ♠ Yrael.

There is also someone who ships Amascut ♥ The Fool. I don't quite see it, yet, and I know Amascut doesn't feel anything like that. I dunno. Maybe I am disqualified from discerning this type of thing because I am very nearly asexual and don't know how infatuation works. I have been completely surprised every time someone says they have been dropping me hints of that nature. Everyone gets friendzoned by me :P.

Though, on the other hand I have had in Amascut's profile for the longest time the allusion to her being "the bottomless pit the bad guy falls into at the end of the story, the attractive chasm which nearly ends the hero's story prematurely." Maybe she is the cliff that the Fool stands on. Or maybe she is the person outside the picture frame waiting to shove the Fool off the cliff. Something weird is going on between them, but I'm not sure what.

Ugh, writing this got Lovefool by The Cardigans stuck in my head.

What I am sure of is Amascut's failure to ♢ nearly everyone she meets.

I think the only person who could have fulfilled ♧ in any sort of relationship Amascut was involved in was her sister by adoption, Apmeken the goddess of friendship and sociability. But, Apmeken got her eyes, ears and mouth removed for trying. Eep.

[bcgphoenix]

I don't think any of mine have a full set in all quadrants. Some (like Olivia) probably don't have anything going on in any quadrants anymore.

The ones I do know...

Gaeta: Hoshi is his matesprit, Baltar is his kismesis. (Though the latter, like all things related to Baltar and Gaeta, is probably more one-sided on Gaeta's part.)
The Trickster: He's in one of those fun matesprit/kismesis oscillations with Kali, since there's nobody around to act as the auspistice.
Bolin: Mako's his moirail, no question.

Which are all canon, surprisingly. Huh.

[batyatoon]

Oh god, can you imagine somebody trying to auspistice between Kali and Loki?

[bcgphoenix]

I think they'd be a pile of ashes within two point eight seconds. :O

[ladysingsthe]

Oh God I don't even know. Ava is kismessable or what have you with like, half the people she knows.

[batyatoon]

Aside from my canon character, who hasn't developed any trollromantic relationships in-bar aside from those at least hinted at in canon ... (Also leaving out matespritships, since those are just obvious.)

Andrew is definitely pale for Sam Winchester, although one could argue that Jonathan is already his moirail.
... and if things had gone only slightly differently, I could see him developing caliginous feelings for Ava. As things went, he may have wound up unintentionally (and unknowingly) auspisticing between her and Sam. Sort of.

Simon was at one point in moiraillegiance with River; that relationship has shifted with distance, but it probably still obtains to a degree.

Kali, as mentioned above, has a constantly oscillating matespritship/kismesissitude with the Trickster. It's gotten ... complicated lately, though.

Cordelia, Charlie, and Cavilo don't seem to have any trollromance relationships to speak of. I wonder why.

[ladysingsthe]

As things went, he may have wound up unintentionally (and unknowingly) auspisticing between her and Sam. Sort of.

*______*

... Also I feel like a dork for reading through twice yet missing "caliginous," which is that?

[bjornwilde]

An awesome word is what that is.

[genarti]

Calignous = black, like ink-black or pitch darkness.

So in Homestuck terms, calignous is the opposite of flushed, i.e. kismesis...itude or whatever the noun form is.

[ladysingsthe]

But is that one platonic hate ...?

[genarti]

I AM NOT AN EXPERT but my impression is nnnnnnno it is not.

Whether it's something humans would characterize is non-platonic is something I've never been able to work out. Although I think in any case it's obsessively personal. Homestuck folk, want to confirm/correct?

[camwyn]

If you can't tell whether the two parties want to kill each other or screw each other's brains out, that's kismessitude. Best example I can think of off the top of my head: the Chow Yun-Fat movie The Killer, and what winds up happening between Chow Yun-Fat's character and Inspector Li. (The first time I watched it, it just seemed like obsession. The second time HOLY GOD THE SLASH GOGGLES, I CAN'T MAKE IT STOP.)

[ladysingsthe]

So, basically, Ava's feelings towards Mike.

[1nv1nc1ble]

My impression of kismessitude is that it makes the reader/viewer want to shout, "SHUT UP AND KISS ALREADY!" But that's just my impression of it.

[leeshajoy]

Which is why I ship Voodoo ♠ Tommy Gavin. :)

[death_gone_mad]

Huh. Well okay, this is the definition under which Amascut ♠ Yrael can exist in any mind except Amascut's.

And now my pup has another reason to kill me.

[batyatoon]

Definitely not platonic! Karkat describes it as "mating unfondness."

[batyatoon]

Kismesislike! Spade-shaped. Characterized by hate-attraction.

[ladysingsthe]

AHA.

[genarti]

So I've never been into Homestuck, and I'm never really sure if I'm parsing the definitions of the quadrants accurately. But I will give it a go!

Trowa: Matesprit/redrom/whatever: Quatre, obviously. Moirail: Cathy, though it's the "looking out for you" kind rather than the "pacification" kind. There are others that would work a bit in a slantwise kind of way, but not really with the same kind of... focus? Feeling of connection? I dunno. (The closest I'm coming besides Cathy is Une, and that's less "look out for you" and more "be verbal-sparring friends until and unless we're enemies again, which everyone involved would rather avoid.") Auspitice: I can't think of anyone. Trowa doesn't really do the "mediating between more tumultuous others" thing, not as an ongoing relationship thing. Kismesis: I mean, you could make a decent case for Ava. He doesn't really have that obsessive "It'll be me that kills you" focus on anyone, though, not in canon and definitely not now. (Obsessive focus, yes, but not on individuals.)

Clare: ...Is really hard to make work within this system, which is kind of funny given that the Claymore set-up ought to lend itself pretty well. No matesprit, probably no auspitice unless you want to declare that Miria auspitizes everybody. Moirail, Teresa. And, very differently, Raki. (Alternately, Teresa is her lusus. *ducks*) Kismesis: Priscilla. Priscilla, straight up, although the extent to which it's requited is complicated (and a spoiler.)

Regan: Is too human-normal to have a lot of these work. Matesprit, Gabriel, obviously. But I don't think I can fill the rest of her quadrants, really! At least, not without coming up with a lot of NPCs in her world on the spot.

River: Uhhhhh. Okay, matesprit, currently Duo, possibility of others totally not off the table even aside from her still-years-away future. Moirail, Simon. Also Mal. Also currently Galadan. And moirail-ish leanings with LOTS of people, because this is pretty much what River does. Auspitice: ...Hmmmm. Nobody currently as a stable dynamic that this is how the group of them work, but River has a lot of friends who don't particularly like each other, and she does fall into this role for the duration of a conversation a lot. If Milliways lent itself more to people interacting all the time whether they liked it or not, River would probably spend more time auspitizing. Kismesis: All of River's kismeses, if she had any, are dead. :D

Thor: Matesprit: I mean, he and Jane Foster have a definite spark, but they've also been in the same place for a grand total of three days and one makeout session. We'll see how it develops! Moirail: Loki. Loki all the way. SO THAT'S FUN, given that Loki is doing his level best to make them kismeses instead! Auspitice: No one, I think. You could interpret Thor as auspitizing between Loki and the Warriors Three, pre-canon, maybe. Kismesis: See above about moirails. We'll see if the MCU brings in any other enemies with history that Thor hates straightforwardly, I guess.

[bcgphoenix]

MY KISMESES ARE DEAAAAAAAAD~

(sorry)




*not sorry*

[genarti]

You are not in the least.

*giggling*

That's okay; neither is River!

[camwyn]

I'm not so good with these myself, but the few relationships of my pups that I can think of that match up with any troll foo-

Shephard and Voodoo and temporarily Captain Lyght wound up with the auspisticing thing going on when Shephard knocked Voodoo's hand away and then scared the crap out of Lyght to get both of them to keep from anybody getting killed. Ideally someone else ought to be the third rather than Lyght because neither Shep nor Voodoo wants to have anything more to do with Lyght, but that's what we've got at the moment.

Evidence has generally indicated Ellen and Voodoo for moirails regardless of the muns who wanna see 'em over in the matespritty quadrant. Not that that would not be interesting in itself, but.

The only one of my pups who has managed to sustain a longstanding enemy is Ray, who currently has Walter Peck as a Siamese fighting fish in a tank on Janine's desk and a quitclaim notice from Hell signing over any interest Hell might have in Peck's soul to the Ghostbusters in general. If that's kismesitude it's kind of a weird one.

I don't count the G-Man as either Gordon's or Shephard's kismesis because a) neither one of them gives him any more thought than they absolutely have to, as opposed to the kind of enemy where you have them on your mind regularly because oooh you hate them so much, b) Gordon basically flipped him off and walked away forever whereas Shephard would be perfectly happy to have just put a pipe wrench through his skull, and c) good God there are so many people who would be jostling for the position of Oooh I Hate You So Much that it would look like the plot of Ranma 1/2, blackrom-wise.

[leeshajoy]

...dammit, now I wanna see what troll shoujo manga is like.

(Probably like Puella Magi Madoka Magica, but gorier.)

[1nv1nc1ble]

...dammit, now I wanna see what troll shoujo manga is like.

It exists. It's called Homestuck. :)

[leeshajoy]

That's cheating. :P

[bloodyvirgo]

I'm not even sorry.



Back though one of the hiatuses, one half of the Homestuck fandom convinced the other that there was a Homestuck anime. We still joke about it, but this is some of the wonderful results that came from it.

[withherhands]

Y'know, reading the explanation for kismesissitude, especially where it says it comes from mutual hatred but that "kissing is considered an appropriate expression of kismesissitude", I was like, "oh, so this kind of feeling is where every protagonist/antagonist ship comes from." :D (See: James Bond/Raoul Silva, any fic featuring MCU!Loki that don't involve the "he's misunderstood!" explanation...)

[ladysingsthe]

... Now my brain is trying to give me a whole Skyfall thing where Severine is auspisticing between Bond/Silva kismesis and Bond is Q's moirail though he has the potential for one-sided caliginous feelings towards Silva ("You hacked me! LET'S BE RIVALS." "You're, what, twelve?").

And Bond is still all matespritty for Vesper?

I hate myself a little.

[jjprobert]

Well, Jack will get several over the course of canon, but, I want to let those relationships evolve naturally, over OOMs, rather than weighting expectations here.

Max has his <3 with Doris, his wife. That's about it at the moment.

I'm not going there with Bean. Not yet, anyway.

I don't know about Erik, certainly matespriteship is unfulfilled, and I suspect that both blackrom quadrants are as well. If they aren't then it's based on academicness, rather than anything else. As for Moirallegiance, there's an argument to be made for Jane to be his Moirail, but I suspect Dr. Foster Snr was a better fit.

And finally, Alfred. Again, no real Blackrom relationships, and certainly no matespriteship, but an argument can certainly be made for Moirallegiance between Bruce and Alfred, once I get Alfred to the point where Bruce is back. It gets broken off about half way through TDKR, though.

[chanter1944]

Late late laaaaate, because work has eaten my brain lately.

I'm another one who doesn't really know Homestuck canon, as a) largely visual and b)... well, I take that back. A) about covers it, alas. The quadrants thing is fascinating and fun to play around with, though.

Sariel hasn't got a matesprit currently, though she did/does have mildly red feelings for Sonya Gomez. That may have lessened somewhat with time, but hints are probably still there. She also had hints of flushed feelings for Lucy Diamond, once upon a time, but that didn't really go anywhere. And Valerie... ditto. Darn. She hasn't got anything caliginous or ashen going on either; no, the maliciously curious aliens are not anywhere near kismesis territory, as she'd sooner not go near them again. I suppose you could say there was a brief ashen interaction between Sariel, Teller and Penn, with Teller auspisticizing between the other two, but then again, there was no hate-attraction toward Penn on Sariel's part, platonic or otherwise. She just didn't like him.

As for pale... this one's got a few possibilities. She's tasked herself as Harding's protector, yes, so there's a solid case for moirallegiance there, but at the same time there's her relationship with Will Scarlett, as well as Gene Roe. The way she and Will look out for an occasionally pacify each other is pretty pale, the more I think about it. And darn it, Sariel and Gene definitely had something going, but whether it was pale, flushed (does this still apply if one party is a non-troll with an incompatible sexuality?) or something else, I don't know.

As for other pups, I'm sorry, but I have to say this. Sunshine <3< vampire!Eric, or maybe c3<, though I'm not sure who'd mediate between them. Also, Sunshine <> Haymitch, Charles Xavier <> Red, and Steve <> Bucky.

Can anybody else see Teja c3< Orpheus? If that means Steve's auspisticizing between them, heh.