bjornwilde (
bjornwilde) wrote in
ways_back_room2014-01-14 05:54 am
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From
gavin62truck :
Does your pup have an arch enemy? Are there people who are constantly at odds with your pup? Why don't they get along? How do they deal with being in that kind of relationship? (This applies to canon and Millicanon.)
Does your pup have an arch enemy? Are there people who are constantly at odds with your pup? Why don't they get along? How do they deal with being in that kind of relationship? (This applies to canon and Millicanon.)

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Kirk has the Klingons. And Khan. He's made some peace with the former by now, but Khan is going to forever stand out as the worst threat he's ever faced, the source of nightmares. He also really doesn't get along with the Starfleet bureaucracy, and that's worse now that he's been put out to pasture. And back in the day, Jim and Weatherspoon from Dog Soldiers totally hit it off badly. Spoon is about the only person in the bar to call Jim out for his moralizing.
Howard has many rivals, but wouldn't even call HYDRA an archenemy. Their beef wasn't with him per se. He tends to get along with everyone, but you can feel the air in the room get cold when Howard Stark is in the same place as Howard Hughes.
Gibbs abhors Barbossa for cause. They can work together when they need to, but would prefer to be on opposite sides of the ocean. Gibbs also hasn't much use for the Royal Navy, but can be civil to most seamen so long as they aren't currently officers.
Knox has made a lot of people in Gotham angry, but none count as real enemies (so far). He can be caustic, but people seem to like him anyway. He's managed to rub people in the Bar the wrong way only a couple of times. Long ago, he tried to be friends with the woman with the tentacles who used to date the blind character from Sneakers. (Cam, if you see this, I am blanking on the names. Been way too long since I thought about it.) This woman was the best friend of Knox's best friend in the Bar, Rachel Grey. And he tried so hard to be her friend, too, that she was repulsed. He avoided her afterwards, and felt really awkward. (PS: The mun for this character was also the mun for Spoon. She was a great player and we had lots of great threads, and one of the reasons was because she was never afraid to let characters not like each other. I strive for that sort of fearless play, but it's hard to do.)
Cyborg: The Titans have way too many archfoes, ranging from Slade to Trigon. But Cy's specific enemy is Gizmo, who is jealous of Cy's tech, and still feels betrayed by Cy from when he was undercover at the HIVE Academy, and and who is still jealous that Jinx was into Cy and not him. Sooner or later, I will do something with this rivalry. Otherwise, everyone loves Cy.
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Suzi Darley and Erwin "Whistler" Emory.
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It's like the training scene early in Dune where Paul Atreides isn't up to snuff against Gurney and says he's just not in the mood for it. "Mood? What has mood to do with it? You fight when the necessity arises — no matter the mood! Mood's a thing for cattle or making love or playing the baliset. It's not for fighting."
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unless the player is Evil Delta and then she kills herno subject
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Gordon and Shephard would probably both say the greyfaced thing in the suit, although Shephard would say it with a lot more words you can't air on primetime television. Gordon's #2 candidate would've been Wallace Breen. Also dead.
Varric does not currently have an archenemy and would say this is because he carefully orchestrates his dealings so that no one particular person has significantly more desire to see him ruined than any other, so they all balance each other out. It's a valuable, vital skill in Kirkwall. This is going to change by the time he gets back from the Deep Roads.
Mordin... no, not really, not that I can think of, unless there's an academic or intelligence service rival out there somewhere that we never hear about.
Medic's is the RED Medic, and it has been my headcanon since before Meet the Medic came out that part of the reason BLU Medic hasn't got a medical license is because he and the other guy inadvertently re-enacted the Reichstag fire when they both sneaked into the Hall of Records and tried to set fire to all the documentation about each other at the same time. (Note: I have not played TF2 since before they had hats in the game. I haven't followed any of the canon developments at all since then. I'm sorry.)
Edward hasn't got an archenemy yet. That will happen. Canon is like that.
I don't think there's any one overarching archenemy in El Santo's canon. I'm not even sure any of his enemies come back for more than one movie, unless some of the vampire movies feature recurring characters.
And Stacker Pentecost has no archenemy other than whatever power is behind the kaiju, but good Lord does he ever harbor a quiet, burning dislike for the cowardly cost-crunching bureaucrats who defunded the Jaeger program in favor of the Wall.
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Clare has Priscilla, who is the Awakened One who killed Teresa. That'd be the reason for Clare's hatred, right there. Clare is 100% set on killing Priscilla EXTREMELY DEAD whenever she tracks her down, and that's the root reason for several of her life decisions. Priscilla, uh, literally doesn't know Clare exists.
Trowa: Nah, not really! Even in the war, Trowa's weren't really personal enmities oh wait I lie sort of. Middie Une is more an IT'S REALLY COMPLICATED than an arch enemy -- they were friends, she was betraying his side, she set things up so that he was sort of the vehicle for the deaths of a lot of his friends and comrades, but also she was being used too and they were both young kids at the time, and at the time he had her at gunpoint and let her go -- but I would be fascinated to see how that ever played out if she did show up again. But I don't think it would be as enemies, which is a different thing from dislike. In terms of real enemies, in the war or not... nah, not really. Maybe Une, but that was a different kind of relationship even at the time, and now they work together just fine.
River and Regan: Not really! Not personally like this, anyway. You could have argued Jubal Early for River in-bar at one point, I guess. And Regan and Gabriel have political opponents, but Gabriel is the more visible one of them for that kind of thing. (Do Nick Rosse and Raguel count? Uh. Maybe Raguel counts. Even if Raguel probably doesn't think so.)
Enjolras: Arch enemy? No. Constantly at odds? In Milliways, Javert might count, I suppose; Javert and Valjean have a much more complicated and personal tangle which includes opposition in it, but Javert and Enjolras DO NOT GET ALONG AT ALL. This is due to barricade events, and a completely opposed philosophical framework. Enjolras is generally willing to be cordial with people who disagree with him, the better to persuade them round. But the barricade (most notably Prouvaire's death) put paid to some of that, and Javert greeting him at the Milliways door with PITY YOU'RE NOT IN HELL YET, GOOD JOB GETTING ALL YOUR FRIENDS KILLED, YOU MURDERER wiped away the last of Enjolras's desire to be anything but coldly disdainful to him.
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(Enjolras is not holding his breath either, and he would not accept the apology with particular grace if by some chance it happened.)
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If, by some miracle, they are not, then there is no doubt that any apology would be the most awkward and begrudging excuse of a thing ever known. And if Enjolras didn't accept it badly it would be worse, because then he wouldn't have an excuse to keep thinking poorly of him.
So. All in all, it's not likely to occur, and if it did nothing would improve. \o/ :D
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If Javert were actually apologizing for the underlying behavior -- for being the kind of person to throw that at somebody just in the door, because the fact that Enjolras wasn't hurt by the accusation doesn't mean he isn't fully aware that it was meant to hurt him badly -- then maybe it would be different. But in that case, I suspect hell would also be freezing over. And if it's just a grudging apology for the actual words... yeah, no, the mutual dislike would continue right apace.
*pats both their heads carefully*
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The goal is to eventually get him to see how he should at least try to understand other people's points of view? (It says something that he's more likely to understand Valjean before a revolutionary, because even with his revelation about mercy, he still can't see how that allows rebellion against the government.) And if he can get that, maybe he can get why telling someone exactly what he thinks of them at the moment all their friends have been killed is not a nice thing to do...yeah. Maybe? I don't know. I doubt it, at this point, but we'll see.
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(Also they both could be said to have an arch enemy of the abstract concept of injustice, while being DEEPLY INSULTED by the very notion that the other is opposing the same thing. Since, you know, they have exceedingly different definitions.)
But I am enjoying watching Javert's journey of TINY INCREMENTAL RESISTING STEPS towards that! It's a good goal. And we'll see what else does or doesn't come along the way, indeed.
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If for some external reason they had to work together (oh god what a prospect), then maybe. If they had more common ground, then quite possibly. If either of them had any hope of convincing the other, then quite possibly also! But as it is, they don't seek each other out at all, and when their paths cross
because their muns are mean, they see no reason why they ought to pretend to anything but serious dislike with just enough courtesy that they're not lowering themselves by a lack of it.Write, tell me if I'm wrong about Javert's side! But that's Enjolras's perspective, for sure. He'd be baffled if Gavroche did try to mediate -- like, okay, if you think there's reason for a friendlier relationship feel free to make your case, Gavroche, but why do you think that?
(And if Gavroche made an argument Enjolras found convincing, he would do his best to act accordingly. Enjolras is used to surrounding himself with people who call him on stuff and argue with him when they think he's wrong, and he's willing to admit it when they have a point. But I'm not sure what that argument would be.)
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This is the most perfect description of their current enemyship! I do not disagree in any way. Not only does Javert actively dislike Enjolras and everything - that is, everything - he stands for, he has absolutely no reason to change that.
I don't think even Valjean could convince him otherwise, when they've calmed their own levels of difficulty with each other. Because even if Javert works towards being more accepting of people on a personal level, there's getting on with people - and then there's being friendly with someone who tried to overthrow the government. Even when/if Javert learns to deal with kindness and mercy, I don't think he'll ever have sympathy for people who go that far. Innocent citizens died. Many, many guardsmen died. It's not just a question of shaking his hand, and putting it behind them. Quite apart from his own extremes of morality, Javert's a royalist. If he comes more to the centre on issues of morality, that's still not going to excuse revolution.
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As is the case for anyone in a Kamen Rider series, he'll probably acquire either an arch-enemy or a string of them soon enough, although it might end up being pretty one-sided. He's not got the glands for it.
Sherral: Sherral doesn't have an arch-enemy now. If he ever did, he killed them probably about six seconds after realising that they were his arch-enemy.
He does have a strong hatred for the bureaucrats and political game-players that his position sees him interacting with far too often for his liking.
Wan: Wan will have an arch-enemy in the future, although really Vaatu is more like Raava's arch-enemy. At the moment, he's at odds with the Chou brothers.
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Valentine's main antagonist is Peter. They fuss at each other, she tries to balance him, and it somehow works out.
Mark's antagonist is Benny. ... yeah.
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Neite is the reason why she has a phobia about cats. Neite led Amascut's priests and priestesses in their revolt against Amascut and in some way cursed her. It's not clear how the curse works, but Neite claims Amascut can't stay in the same mortal form for long and Amascut's name will be forgotten as soon as it is heard. The curse doesn't seem to be working very well these days except when it is convenient for Amascut. Anyhow, for their betrayal, Amascut turned Neite and the rest of her surviving clergy into cats permanently, and then Icthlarin, feeling guilty and sorry for these new cats, made it even more permanent by granting them immortality. Just another reason for Amascut to hate her brother. Neite still hasn't forgiven Amascut, so Amascut's phobia is partially justified. There really is a feline conspiracy against her on her world.
There are many more besides that. Her adopted siblings and the Mahjarrat are next in line, but I have the feeling that even with potential friends and allies, she has a compulsion to look for a flaw that will justify her mistrust of them.
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I really doubt Fairy Fixit has an archenemy. She has opinions (mostly negative) about gods and religion, and maybe she had academic rivals, but nothing that I would say is as passionate a relationship as an archenemy thing.
Evil Chicken doesn't have the attention span. Evil Chicken is the false god of distraction. Death might have been an enemy at one time, but Death only counts as an occasional rival these days, I think. The Chocotrice is also just a rival.
Death and the Chocatrice. Haha.
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Charles: Not yet, Shaw partly but its more they have conflicting dreams and even with Erik as Magneto, Charles would never use archenemy. He would say its complicated.
Moist: Not yet, but give him time and soon he'll have Vimes on his trail. For now, in Milliways, there's Teja who never seems to let a moment when he can go, you're an awful human being go by without telling Moist.
Ivan: Nope, as a member of the Barrarayn military, he gets disliked for that but he doesn't have any personal archenemies, he prefers it that way.
William: No, a few years ago he might have said Ben Wade but now he just feels annoyed by him but not the hatred he did before.
Jane: Tom's uncle and Lady Grantham, they both feel like they've gone out of their way to tell Jane that who she is, isn't right.
Sameth: Well, not his personal arch enemy but the two necromancers who tried to bring back Orannis are up there. They were against his home and thus against him.
Demeter: Not really, she doesn't have a lot of affection for her brothers but no real archenemies. Even with Hades, its not hatred more mutual dislike that they've found a compromise of how to live with it.
Tumnus: During the Long Winter, the White Witch and Fenris were people he was afraid of but it was never personal, not archenemy, more they were the enemies of Narnia.
The Pirate King: Not really, I mean lots of law abiding officers out there but no one in particular.
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That is not a euphemism. As for how he deals with it....um, not well? Gene's whole afterlife is built on denial, and being forced to see the truth is excruciating for him, and tends to threaten to destroy his whole world.
Bruce Wayne - crime. And the Joker. And Two-Face. And Bane. And Poison Ivy. And, himself. And...this could be a really, really long list. He mostly deals with it by ultimately being more badass than they are.
Bruce Banner - himself, always and forever.
Javert- himself.
Valjean - himself.
I am sensing a theme. OK, these last two are also at odds with each other, but it's really complicated. They don't hate each other. In canon, they both do what they do to live, and it so happens that this brings them into conflict. It's rarely personal, until the end. (Rarely. I won't say Javert doesn't display some rather overt satisfaction at the thought of catching him at one point. *ahem*) Anyway, in Milliways, when Javert has to actually face the results of Valjean's mercy, it has definitely become personal. And I imagine, will only get more so.
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And that would be the one where the usual solution rather falls down, wouldn't it?
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It's depressing and upsetting and yet it has such a hold on me. Gah.
So much for what I was going to do over the break. Whoops?
List time!
Artemis: That would be a fairly complicated sort of situation with Cheshire and Sportsmaster. *waves at Thor* Family, you know?
Tyler Darrow: Um. Not as such no.
Ako: Her efforts in canon are stopped more by the environment than another person. Which is a shame, since canon is one of those settings where individual problems can be solved by punching people.
Robo: Helsingard. Doctor Dinosaur. Helsingard. (He's a Nazi cyborg, it bears repeating.)
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(Seriously, Doctor Dinosaur has all the crazy, and he ain't sharing.)
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Alas, the Doctor controls both the ebb *wham* and flow *louder wham* of the comments.
You can tell by the dents in the holding cell from the demonstrations.
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Bumi: There's a Shark Squid that's always had it out for him. Some higher up muckity mucks in the United Forces that are displeased with him. Bumi'd also consider anyone who even THINKS about harming his family as arch enemies.
Mike, Raph, Splinter: The Foot Clan. Thaaaaaat might be pretty much it at this point.
Though...There's always Beau, Sallie's Ex-husband...
Ida: Everyone who isn't O2STK or the Middleman.
The Loompas: The Wonka, and vermicious knids.
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Urge to app Bartholomew Quint rising.... :)
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Mia's arch was Ghaleon, her father figure/possible biological father/sort of avuncular type if that's how you'd rather go? Unlike the rest of the Five Heroes, except maybe Nash, Mia grew up around Ghaleon and had a personal relationship with him before he revealed his plans of godhood and world domination. Mia thinks often on him, especially since she's seen him a time or two in Milliways, and is still occasionally shaken by the conflict in their personal moralities. But there are times when she can remember him fondly.
Lucas has two arches, King Porky and the Masked Man. Porky is the one who orchestrated every tragedy that's come to Lucas and his family, all out of boredom. He doesn't know Lucas personally and regards the events of the game as just that, a game. He's having his fun watching Lucas and his friends struggle against his Pigmask Army. Lucas doesn't quite know what to make of Porky, stuck with anger, pity, and emptiness all somehow mixing inside. His feelings towards the Masked Man, however, are much clearer. Even if he's died and been reconstructed as a chimera, even if he can't feel anything anymore and can't remember who he is, even if he really is just Porky's puppet to pull the Needles, Lucas can't bring himself to strike Claus.
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While Tommy has lots of casual enemies-- most people like him but they still think he's a jerk, and there's almost nobody who Tommy hasn't had a fight with-- his boss, Chief Perrolli (who ranks higher than Chief Reilly, who's for the most part Tommy's ally), hates his guts. He thinks he's reckless and dangerous, which, to be fair, he is, and is constantly breathing down his neck about his alcohol and addiction issues. The more he tries to rein Tommy in, the more he rebels.
In Milliways, he doesn't have any real enemy-type enemies, just people who he dislikes and people who may dislike him. Molly Hayes, for example! Because instead of Tommy apologizing and being reasonable with her, he upped the sarcastic attitude and pissed her off even more. There's Autor, who he thinks is an irritating shit. There's the Waco Kid, who he also thinks is an irritating shit (there will be a reaction to the Christmas gift, I promise!) but he's learning to deal with some jealousy issues. And of course there's Voodoo. ...That one's complicated. They haven't spoken since their big fight, and now that Tommy knows all about the letter Voodoo gave to Kate, I'm not sure what would happen if they ever entered the same air space again. Perhaps a small army of Security people would have to intervene, perhaps not.
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Olivier/Daoud - has no enemies as yet. He's just too nice.
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Leela: No one in particular, but a series of whatever evils the Doctor runs into. Xoanon used to be an enemy, but he's better now.
Kane: GDI, and everyone who stands with them. Kane will not rest until they are destroyed and the old order is swept away. In Milliways, he's always gotten a kind of satisfaction at being able to avoid the abilities of Charles Xavier. He does not think much of him - too self-righteous and nowhere near ambitious enough.
Caius: Whoever the Empire's enemy is right now.
Garyn: Not yet, though Dagoth Ur, King Helseth, and the Camonna Tong loom large in his future. At the moment, his own guilt, bitterness, and loathing is his worst enemy. In Milliways, he and Javert have a kind of mutual "nuh-uh, yuh-huh" grumpfest going on, which is fun. I think Javert actually strikes more of a nerve in Garyn than he lets on.
Marge: Nah, she doesn't really have an archenemy. Not a whole lot of places where that could come up in Brainerd, particularly in a fairly realistic canon like Fargo. Also, she's pretty friendly. She's a bit suspicious of Jason Todd in Milliways, though.
Thenardier: He considers pretty much the whole damn world to be his enemy. Kill or be killed, steal or be stolen from. He has a particular animus against Valjean after he took Cosette and he didn't think to squeeze enough money out of him for it, though it's not like they would ever chance to meet again afterwards. What would the odds of that be?
Anyway, though Hugo himself would probably say that society itself creates the kind of darkness in which an infection like the Thenardiers can fester, most of their problems are a direct result of their own poor character. So they're their own worst enemies and don't realize it.
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...Madame too, but not as much as Monsieur.