ways_back_room | DE: I'm singing in the rain

Um.

Well.

Gordon is very very glad he doesn't have to do it any more, but if the need ever comes up again we're talking about a guy who carries a crowbar everywhere he goes just in case he has to kill something with it. Yes, that includes the shower. Yes, he keeps it under the pillow at night. You deal with PTSD your way, he'll deal with it in his.

Shephard is of the opinion that if it has a trigger he can use it and if it it bleeds he can kill it, and that God put him on this earth to kill shit so other people don't die. In good times that just means bringing home dinner and in bad ones, well, the Scout Sniper motto is 'one shot, one kill, no exceptions'. The point is that he's good at it so other people don't have to be.

Ellen's first day out of Vault 101 took her from SCREAMING AGORAPHOBIA to a building full of raiders who used body parts as wall decoration. She's kinda had to get used to the whole violence thing really, really fast. It's a thing you do to survive, although you shouldn't do it more than you really have to, and there is also something very, very wrong with violence against people who can't fight back. (Surprise attacks against soldiers who haven't noticed you are one thing, but blowing up a troop transport when the soldiers on board can't defend themselves is another.) And I am reasonably sure that if Lord Ashur hadn't agreed to accept robots in exchange for freeing his 'workers' and dropping the slave-taking practice as it became less and less necessary, she really would have used Mothership Zeta to blow the Pitt off the face of the Earth, because some things are vile enough that they have to be destroyed for everyone's good. (See also: Andale.)

Medic considers violence a great research opportunity and a source of spare parts.

Varric is from a medieval society that lives with death and bloodshed on a much closer everyday level than modern Americans and other Westerners generally do. Violence is a thing that happens, so deal with it and try not to splash any of it on his clothes. (It's worth noting as well that there are no pacifist or nonviolent religions in Thedas so far as I can see. The Christianity analogue featuring a martyred human-born savior was founded from a massive armed revolt and its symbol of mercy is a sword because death by sword is preferable to burning alive. There is no analogue to ahimsa in any of the non-Maker-based religions or philosophies. This is not a world with a philosophical basis for nonviolence.)

Stacker Pentecost believes violence had better have a purpose because otherwise it's a waste and a sign of stupidity or impulsiveness.

El Santo believes that the strong and skilled have an obligation not to abuse other people with their strength and skill and that violence ought to be used to protect the weak and train other people in protecting themselves. As entertainment it's another story because everybody involved knows what they're getting into. I'm not sure what his policy is on killing humans, but he didn't seem too broken up about the Martians.

And as far as Edward Kenway goes, allow me to quote Captain Jack Sparrow's best line from the first movie:

"Pirate."

Clone Wars? I'm in season two now and really liking it, and finding its approach to war quite smart.

Charlie: My born again pacifist. The man used to beat people up for fun, and excuse himself by claiming it was crime-fighting. Then he learned much more about martial arts and met one of the world's great killers in Lady Shiva, and began to adjust his approach towards one that used violence as a necessary evil. But the more he saw violence up close, the more he saw what it did to both victim and perpetrator, the more he wondered if this was the right way. In the end, he concluded that there is a need for violence but that it needs to be tempered - thus how he trained Renee - but that he wants nothing to do with it. I can't see him getting into a fight ever again. Beyond that, he didn't kill and learned how to limit the damage done to others. But now when he meets other heroes, a part of him really wants to tell them there is another way.

Gibbs: Pirate. Violence is part of his life, though he prefers not to be around when it happens, and is pretty sure that killing is a bad idea all around.

Howard Stark: With WWII just behind him and the Cold War just starting, Howard certainly has no issue with using violence to defend the US. And his fortune is based on that. But he has a disconnect between "I make things that kill people" and "I kill people."

Cyborg: Superheroes hit things. And people. That's how it works. But they also don't kill. So Cy can divide, at least in his head, between one level of violence and another. He doesn't think of himself as violent, and doesn't think of what he does as violence. No one has ever really confronted him about this.

Kirk: Which vision of Kirk are we talking about? The one parodied as saying "we come in peace - shoot to kill"? The one who got into all those fistfights and who shoved Kruge off a cliff? Or the one I like to quote all the time: "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today." I like to think that at heart, Jim hates the need for violence. He's really good at it, but he knows it's not how it should be. And he's setting the stage for the evolution of Starfleet into the one that tried very hard to take "respond with force" out of the list of options.

Yep! I'm up to about the halfway point of season 4. I love this series, it is so much better than the prequel trilogy. I also love how long it makes the Clone Wars seem, which I didn't get a feel for from the movies.

It does need more of my pup though. (He's only in one episode in season 3.)

Edited 2014-04-09 15:01 (UTC)

By her nature, Sunshine isn't violent. She abhors violence and bloodshed. But because of the path her life has taken, she has come to see it as a necessary evil. Something that is suffered to spare others greater suffering. What violence she does commit, she does it with as much compassion as she can muster (despite her enemies being vampires who enjoy torturing their victims because it makes them taste better), and makes it as quick and painless as possible.

Yrael is quite fond of it, actually. All of it, in its many shapes and forms and purposes.

Jess is up for fisticuffs anytime. She doesn't go for maiming herself but is good friends (at least from her POV) with Wolverine, so obviously doesn't think too badly of it when needed. I think she does have a killer instinct and won't hesitate if it is needed, but is at a place where she will question that instinct every time. Unless innocent lives are at stake.

Anton seems to be very uncomfortable with violence. I mean he's fine using magic to protect himself and his team but would prefer not to use it to hurt people. It is part of the job though and he will, and has used it. He has killed and allowed the deaths of Others, mostly Vampires. I'm kind of drawing a blank on the same with humans. I know part of him is horrified by the scale of damage Others can do to humans.

Quin/Korvas is a retired Jedi and Smuggler, if you don't shot first when your instincts tell you to, you don't stay in business very long. I think he will tend towards injuring rather than death and I do wonder if the tendency for Jedi's to hack off limbs comes from living with technology which allows cybernetic limbs and advanced healing so readily available.

Andrea is another who lives in a shot first or die world. She hates killing needlessly, especially if the magical beastie is just defending its young or territory from stupid humans, but saving people is what she does and so will do it. She favors guns though, so I imagine maiming isn't something she's comfortable with.

Mulan fights with a sword but comes from a PG rated canon. I would say she is fine with violence in defense of innocence but will try not to maim or kill.

Hank hates violence and hurting people. I'm not to his future self yet but I have a sort of head canon that he is fine with using his body but not weapons, no guns or blades. I can see him using a staff though.

I do wonder if the tendency for Jedi's to hack off limbs comes from living with technology which allows cybernetic limbs and advanced healing so readily available.

It wouldn't surprise me. I'm reminded of a first-edition Werewolf: The Apocalypse supplement, the Glass Walker tribe book, where they mentioned in passing that it was pretty common for several factions within the tribe to use firearms in educating the cubs of their tribe- because as long as you only loaded the gun with standard bullets, whatever damage you did would heal up in seconds.

It does seem about the best way to reconcile the peacekeepers with flying limbs. ; p

I recall hearing someplace that Jedi have specific terms for lopping off appendages with lightsabers.

This does not surprise me. = ]

Well, is it that the Jedi have a tendency to hack people's limbs off, or is it that we tend to see a lot of them hacking people's limbs off, because that makes for a good (ending to a) fight, and a good fight is seen as essential to a good movie/tv show/book/video game/whatever.

So, it ends up being that the boring stuff where they can walk in, talk people down, and walk out, never gets seen (or written, but that's another issue).

A very good point! We are also seeing them mostly in hostile or war situations given the stories we are shown.

And Quin is demanding a further answer from me...if you are threatening his family, he will end the threat in the shortest and most efficient means possible. If that means maiming or killing, he will act without hesitation and deal with the ethical issues later, once his kids are safe. His answer seems to be less ruthless if Khaleen (his wife) were the one being threatened as he knows she can take care of herself.

Also, Brimstone hates violence and death. Killing is an end while life is infinite possibility. Regretfully, he is not in a situation where he has the luxury of living without violence.

Edited 2014-04-09 20:56 (UTC)

For Amascut it is a natural consequence. There is life, therefore there is violence and death. For her it is also a mercy, at least the killing part. There is so much worse out there, and she has been a personal witness to it. Maiming... she maimed her step-sister Apmeken badly but I think that was only because she couldn't kill her.

Fairy Fixit has only been violent via passive-aggressive "accidents" as far as canon has revealed.

She probably abhors (direct) violence.

Henry doesn't really like the thought of killing. Sometimes violence has to happen and all, but it's not entirely on his radar.

Eriond really, really doesn't like the thought of killing--but sometimes there's just been no other way. Mind, that was before he had almost unlimited power. He'll never use violence himself, never has, but he may have a few new tricks at his disposal.

Lois is a fan of certain kinds of violence. She has a black belt, sometimes people need a solid punch to the face, she is becoming a figure in the superhero community. She's also a military brat; this stuff is just part of her world. Killing? Not her thing, she will rarely threaten it but wouldn't really follow through, and frankly she will be very fond of a certain hero's policies on the topic.

Daniel would prefer not to use it, but he also understand that sometimes violence is justified, as in self defense. Jack: "What kind of archaeologist carries a gun?!" Daniel raises his hand, "Uh, Jack, I do." ...

Tegid is the same. Actually, all of my pups feel this way, with the exception of Dead!Kai and Raziel. Raziel feels that violence, when dealing with just about anyone in his world, is justified, because just about everything is out to kill him. There are a few exceptions to this, but not many. Kai, doesn't have an opinion,nor does he have a choice.

It is even more complicated for my OC Wraith Queen, because her species is very territorial and war like. She has to show a strength, or die, and violence, even in her own hive is commonplace.

Daniel would prefer not to use it, but he also understand that sometimes violence is justified, as in self defense. Jack: "What kind of archaeologist carries a gun?!" Daniel raises his hand, "Uh, Jack, I do." ...

Another gun-toting archaeologist here. Admittedly, Jack is military trained, but still.

Actually, if I were to go on a dig in certain parts of the world or even country, I would be a gun-toting archaeologist. lol. Hell, my grandpa was a gun-toting missionary when he went to the remote parts of the Philippines. I think it had to do more with the wildlife though.

Daniel and Jack should thread.

Edited 2014-04-09 19:08 (UTC)

Tavi gives violence and death lots of thought. He happens to be a huge fan of alternate, non-violent solutions which often result in alliances with people or species who had been enemies before--or, you know, accidentally having them not officially but for all practical purposes subordinate to him. Or outright loyal and subordinate. He's one of the first Alerans (well, the first, probably) to begin seriously valuing the lives of species beyond his own and actively push to end the bloodshed as soon as is practically feasible. Hell, he tries to negotiate a non-violent peace with a minor Vord Queen once. (But only once.)

......................

Two words: death ray.

*just points at his icon* I'm done here.

Alfred is quite willing to use violence to defend his home and his master. He may be old, but he's still in good shape, and quite capable of taking down ninjas, thank you very much. It's really not a good day if he has to, but then again, this is Gotham. Bad days happen more often than you'd think.

Erik would really rather not. At all, in any way shape or form. On the other hand, he can accept that it is something other people may have to be good at to keep people safe.

For Max, violence is something other people do. He can accept that sometimes violence needs to happen around him, or will have to happen, but he's not going to be performing any, thank you.

Bean lives on the streets. He sees violence daily, and is willing to commit to it to win, if he has to. But, it's not a first resort. With the exception of one moment at the climax of his canon that I won't say any more because Spoilers. And even then, he talks first.

Jack is military. He can kill you, will kill you if you try anything on him (or his team). That doesn't mean he has to like it. It's a necessary evil of his (former) day job, and a fact of life that those who don't like what him and Max are trying to do, will try to use it on them, so he is willing to use it back, just not without provocation.

*looks at my roster, realizes all of my current pups have killed before*

But okay, let's really look at these.

Mia doesn't necessarily like violence. On their way to the Frontier, she says, "I don't see anything particularly cheerful about taking someone's life." This is in contrast to Kyle and Jessica taking pleasure in the idea of getting revenge. She has not and will not forget that she had a hand in her father figure's death. She has struck others when it wasn't completely necessary, specifically to knock some sense into the men in her life. (We could argue that the thing with Nash MIGHT have been necessary since he was saying they had to go along with Ghaleon or they'd all be killed, but I've put in a couple of others that might not have needed to happen.) This is regarding humans and other creatures capable of sentient thought, though. Traveling anywhere on Lunar means you're going to run into monsters at some point, and that usually means a fight to the death. This is accepted as normal in Lunar. As far as just fighting goes, Mia doesn't mind doing it for fun/sparring, provided that both parties understand it's just that.

Lucas was already well on his way to this lesson before he became a woobie destroyer of worlds, but he doesn't really like killing. Fighting is all right. He spent a lot of time play-fighting, either with Claus or the local fauna, but it was understood to be just that. One of the nice things about the Earthbound/Mother series is fights usually aren't to the death. People, animals, and things attack you until they "turn back to normal," "become tame," or "stop moving." That aside, Lucas needed to live and didn't have the money to buy food, so for three years he ate whatever creatures he caught. These usually ended up being slitherhens, which he doesn't much care for taste-wise. He would probably rather eat a cattlesnake, but good luck downing and butchering one of those. Lucas HAS caused cease of existence before, but it wasn't done in violence. He thinks often of the Magypsies that befriended him and, while they assured him that their disappearing would not be like dying, he does miss them and probably feels a little guilty about their "deaths" from his actions.

For the Knight, violence is all part of his job. There is joy in fair sport, but fights are usually battles against the Raven's crows. Lohengrin, being the son of Parsifal, has heard his story of trying to impress a group of knights by shooting a swan out of the sky. Just as the knights asked Parsifal what harm the swan has done to him, Lohengrin doesn't tolerate harm visited upon the innocent. He enjoys hunting but usually refrains at the request of his Prince. (This is the same Prince who, even without a heart, ran into a burning building to save an animal. I can't see him liking hunting so much.)

Ahahaha oh very good question.

Thor, alas, kind of revels in it. That is -- he doesn't revel in causing pain or death. That part is regrettable, although it's sometimes necessary and he doesn't flinch from it. But the physical part of violence he enjoys, and so he likes a good target for it -- someone who can meet him blow for blow, or someone who (he feels) needs to be stopped or killed for the sake of some good cause. And he's from a society which puts a lot of stock in the honor and virtue of being a skillful warrior (so long as you're also an honorable one).

Clare regards it as part of a day. She's good at it, it's a job to her, she doesn't blink at it. Humans getting harmed is something she has more conflicted feelings about.

...And then work ate me for the rest of the day, so I will come back to this later! Trowa and especially Enjolras have detailed and conflicted feelings about it, but River and Regan think about it too.

For Bilbo, Merlin, and Lydia, it's only in self-defense or in defense of a loved one.

Cecil...dude. Most of the time he's very gentle, but then there are the times when he's terrifying...I suspect he's capable of great violence. We just haven't seen him in the right circumstances yet.

Sadie does not do violence. Sadie uses reason, magic, and a well-placed insult.

The Ice King is from a kids's show, so his form of violence isn't graphic. He does use his ice powers to fight sometimes, but once he was also horrified to learn he'd accidentally hired a professional killer when all he wanted him to do was give Finn and Jake a thumping. He's not violent by nature or for the pleasure of it.

Steve and Jack are soldiers, but to quote canon, Steve knows compassion. He does not do violence for violence's sake, period. Jack has more of a ruthless streak and experience with covert ops, and sometimes he gets into fistfights to relieve tension. Off the battlefield, though, he'd rather humiliate someone than hurt them.

Ibani's relationship with killing and violence is kind of complicated. She doesn't LIKE killing, but she will if she feels it's necessary. (And if YOU shoot at her first, it's most likely necessary.) Plus, as a Sith in a war torn world, well, non-lethal or non-maiming are rarely options she gets the chance to employ.

If you threaten HER people though, her friends, people she cares for? Yeah, you don't want to do that. When she was eleven and her mother figure was murdered she lashed out in rage/grief with a desire to HURT the guy and killed him with Force Lightning. She'll be very surprised to find that that desire to lash out and hurt people who hurt HER people is still there the first time one of her friends is in a bad situation. I suspect she'll struggle with that all her life and it's probably her biggest risk factor for falling to the dark side. (She would be very, very scary if that happened. Ibani has had training as an Inquisitor, which means she's been trained to torture people. Dying would, by far, be the least awful thing that could happen to you in that case.) Either way, she will hunt your ass down and make sure you can't hurt her people anymore no matter how you try to run and hide.

Elle used to be relatively flippant about human life, particularly when it came to those she considered within the arena, so to speak, that she worked in. She felt the same way about her own life - she and others like her were essentially expendable, and she definitely got a thrill out potentially life-threatening encounters and situations. The same was true for violence, and in particular her own sadistic streak, fueled by her latent curiosity about violence and detached perception of physical autonomy and integrity (given that she'd also been afforded neither). Now that she has distinctive experiences as someone who has more moral compunctions about taking human life and inflicting violence, she doesn't enjoy it and will sometimes act to avoid it when possible, though she'll still readily engage in it if she feels doing so will put a stop to some other substantial threat.

A defining event in Asami's life was the violent death of her mother, which in turn led her father to ensure she'd be able to use violence to defend herself. She doesn't like fighting, and finds the idea of actually killing another person abhorrent. But at this point, she'll defend herself immediately, with no hesitation, if she perceives a threat. And while she won't jump at once to lethal action, she is capable of it and, at least once in canon, appears to be on the verge of taking it, even though in the moment her life wasn't immediately threatened. Katara is rather similar in that violence is major aspect of her life, in particular because she grew up during a war. While she doesn't favor violent action for the sake of it, or for revenge (as she ultimately decided against killing her own mother's murderer), she is willing to take it to defend herself or loved ones. It's not something she likes, but she does consider it necessary, not only to help preserve her own life but as a means of establishing her own competence and autonomy (hence she was upset when she was initially refused instruction in fighting techniques for waterbending - denying her that actively worked to make her less capable of living/surviving in the world as she knew it.)

A lot of Will's canon is him talking about violence and death and killing and how he feels about it and how it makes him feel and etc. etc. To the point that it's arguably one of the central themes of the show, and as result, the answer is continually evolving. So, warning here, this is going to get into some Hannibal spoilers. Will worked as a cop in New Orleans before entering the FBI, and during his time there he not only never used his firearm, but was reluctant to do so. That continued when he entered the FBI, and I get the impression this active reluctance was, along with concerns about his mental stability, a reason he was only ever employed in a consulting/teaching capacity. Will was very familiar with violence and the emotions and reasons that went into taking lives, but he'd managed to keep that familiarity separate from his own reality. And that's really all that went into it - he didn't want to think too much about his own feelings on if or when he could accept committing violent acts, or killing another person, because as long as he didn't actually do it, he could theoretically keep it on the other side of a partition, albeit a thin, translucent one.

Then Garrett Jacob Hobbs happened, and he didn't have that line of separation anymore. In the original novel, the experience of killing Hobbs, even though the killing was as justifiable as can really be considered possible (Hobbs had just murdered his wife and was attempting to murder his daughter), was so traumatizing for him that he sought institutional care. In the show... he gets a psychiatrist intent on gaslighting him into being his Murder BFF. So. That's been going really well. As in a really unpleasant progression from being so messed up he couldn't with certainty discern his own identity, to having clarity but being in a position where the only way he could even incrementally work toward saving himself and others was by placing a particular value on human life (quid pro quo indeed), to being at a point where he actively wanted another person dead (which I did not realize until I was writing that tag, um), and then being not only willing to kill someone and in a premeditated fashion, but also willing to manipulate the goodwill of another person (albeit, not a... great other person, but still), putting them in significant danger and using them as a means to the end. So... yeah.

Marceline is pretty chill with violence, though she's actually more disinclined to kill others than she lets on. Well. It depends on the others. She doesn't like admitting she has friends or affection for others, but... she does and she wouldn't kill them. Just annoy them a lot. This is really a pretty standard attitude toward violence in Ooo.

Manny doesn't like violence, but it's because he's really bad at it. Generally he's going to use other means to get what he wants, or mess with people, but it's not out of any moral high ground. He's not going to go around sprouting people, but he would probably be more inclined to use violence to accomplish his goals if, as a tool, it were more effective for him. But it's not.

Hiccup also lives in a social setting where there's just a reasonably high acceptance of violence. But he also found himself incapable of killing what he perceived as a possibly lethal threat. I think now his feelings on that might change, but that would be more because he has this friendship that he'd value more than not wanting to hurt or maim another under any circumstance. He's not generally disposed toward violence, but is willing to engage in it out of necessity, or even from being coerced into it.

Leslie can be violent, but in such a way that's ridiculously harmless. Anything more than childish hair-pulling and shallow scratches is beyond her.

Jay has a rather complicated moral code that doesn't always make sense, even to himself. Most of the time he'll avoid killing without just cause. He will kill in combat if it's kill or be killed, but he doesn't always think that through. He'll kill to end suffering - either that person's or the suffering they've caused. And he will get very, very nasty if someone threatens a child. Or someone he cares about. Non-lethal violence however is just part of who he is. He loves a good fight but not enough to start them without reason and has a concerning fascination with dangerous situation.

Olivier is a soldier but also a healer and a protector. He dislikes violence but is very aware it is a part of the life he has chosen and will do what he must when he must.

David is a very gentle man most of the time, unless pushed but he is all too aware of what and who he is. He is a killer deep down and tries to keep that nature hidden. During the war he did terrible things in the name of duty and he did them well, part of why he serves as a policeman now - his own form of penance.

Clem: Supports any violence that will save her skin and/or make her job easier. Plus glossy, glamorized violence is her bag.

Dixie: Will do whatever she can to save her, falls into Necessary Evil category for her.

Juliet: Violence is part of her job, something she's good at dishing out if she needs to, but if she can she'll avoid violence at all cost.

Pinkie: Violence is wrongbad in Ponyville and she doesn't support it.

Eponine: Definitely means to an end.

DE: I'm singing in the rain

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