DE: For in a republic, who is "the Country"?

[bjornwilde]

 So, here in the USA tomorrow is our nations birthday and a few days ago it was Canada's. Which has me wondering, how does your pup define a patriot? And do they consider themselves a patriot?

Comments

[athelstanthescribe]

Ichabod has a lot to say on this subject, but it'll have to wait a while.

Athelstan doesn't quite get the concept.

[bjornwilde]

Sam Wilson: A partiot is one who sees their country as it is, all the good and the bad, and still has faith that the country can do better. He considers himself to be a patriot.

Hank McCoy: A patriot is one who has faith the powers that be have the best interests of the USA in mind. That they trust in the government. And yes, this view is problematic and will need to be adjusted, but he is a product of his time. He does consider himself a patriot.

Ahsoka Tano: A patriot is one who loves their culture and government. She does not consider herself a patriot as she serves the whole of the galaxy, not one system.

I'll have to see if anyone else wants to speak up.

[misslucyjane]

There's a quotation to the effect of, "America. When it's good, keep it good. When it's bad, make it better." That's the kind of patriot Steve Rogers is.

Patriotism isn't quite a concept in Merlin's time. There's love of country, but that's connected with love of one's king, so his feelings for Arthur and for Camelot are lone and the same.

It's complicated for Jack. The country is his to inherit, and his love for it is tied to his ego and his family. It's not the same thing as patriotism, really.

Sadie doesn't think about patriotism. Groot's loyalties lie with people, not places. Countries no longer exist for Furiosa. Cecil is more loyal to Night Vale itself. The Vision doesn't concern themselves with countries--they see a bigger picture.

[camwyn]

Gordon's from a post-countries post-apocalyptic world; as far as he's concerned patriotism is something that happens to other people. For Shephard, however, it's remembering what his county was supposed to be and trying to do that right.

Ellen is also from a post-countries world. The only people in her world who have ever claimed to be patriotic have been the adults of Andale and the forces of the Enclave. The term has unpleasant connotations for her as a result. Fawkes' definition of patriot comes out of the encyclopedia database he was locked up with and he would love to discuss the concept with someone for whom it was an actual living idea, not something from before the War.

Stacker has no time for patriotism. Kaiju don't take notice of nations or ideologies. He will think about it later, maybe.

For Santo, a patriot is somebody who loves his country and the people in it, and who does his best to protect and serve the interest of his people.

Edward Kenway is too busy laughing to answer. I suppose he might be inclined to point to Benjamin Hornigold and call him one, on the grounds that Hornigold makes a point of not attacking British ships at sea, but that's it. 'Patriotism' is something of a dirty word in Ankh-Morpork, even if Wee Mad Arthur stopped to notice it, which he doesn't. Varric is too cynical to really take the idea seriously, but I don't think patriotism is really a thing in the Free Marches anyway. You might find patriots in Orlais or Tevinter or Ferelden. Go ask them.

[i_am_your_host]

It's...complicated (see fan art *cough*). Yes, Emcee loves Germany. Berlin is his home. He's very attached to it. It's the government that's ruining it and corrupting its people, turning them against one another, so it's becoming increasingly difficult to stay loyal to a country that's been seen as the 'bad guy' so frequently. But he stays for the people who are like himself, for the people who he knows are good. So essentially he loves his country and people, but hates the government. He probably would not consider himself a patriot, yet his need to stay despite the danger might actually make him one.

It's really, really complicated.

[merryeccentricities]

What's that, can't hear you over the constant background music

(which is to say, Bahorel and Joly are both devoted patriots to the point of death, but with the understanding that the country and its current government can be entirely different things, and, alas, often are. For further extremely earnest and detailed discussion of patriotism and the nature of the republic, please consult your nearest French revolutionary.)

(also oh man I can't believe Gen is gone for this one.:P)

[bjornwilde]

And that would explain why I don't have an answer from Enjolras. Damn, I should have saved it.

[merryeccentricities]

We will make her answer it retroactively! *resolved look*

[pro_patria_mortuus]

I didn't need to answer for Enjolras because YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR HIS ANSWER, EVERY CITIZEN CAN FIND THE TRUTH AND BEAUTY OF SERVING THEIR NATION IN THEIR OWN HEART--

No, uh, the thing is that 'patriot' is a really complimentary term so far as Enjolras and his social circles are concerned. So yes, of course he considers himself a patriot -- he loves his country utterly, he dedicated his life to working for France and its people, and he died fighting for that cause. You can disagree with his goals or his views or his strategy, sure, but it's hard to find a more textbook definition than that. But it's an obvious fact and it's also close to bragging to talk about "gosh I'm such a patriot yep", and that's something he has no interest in. He'd much rather talk about how other people are patriots -- his friends, of course, but not only them -- or about abstract matters like the definition of patriot or what patriots ought to do in service to their country, and such.

[genarti]

And for my other active pups:

Cosette considers herself French, certainly, but I don't know about a patriot. She doesn't really have reason to, you know? She's never been politically engaged, and she's never been outside France. It's not an abstract question she's really engaged with much. She's getting more curious, so maybe someday she'll look into that whole thing more, but not right now.

Thor... I mean... I guess yes?? He's not NOT a patriot. He loves Asgard, he's Asgardian to his bones, and he would do almost anything he had to do to help it. But he's the king's heir, which is a little different than being an average citizen devoted to their land; it's a different kind of proprietary feeling.

Also, he thinks on a scale that's both smaller and larger than someone from Earth, because Asgard is an entire realm (but a small one, with nowhere near the area or population of Earth.) So, like, he would expect someone from Earth to feel strongly about their planet, but feeling strongly about their nation is like being really, really, really tied up in your hometown and how awesome its county fair is, to him.

Kazul has very strong feelings about being a dragon. But they're not really geographically tied. Yes, she feels strongly about the Mountains of Morning, but that's proprietary, not as an abstract concept of homeland -- they're hers (and every other dragon's) because they're where they live, they have control over this territory, thank you very much, but it's not tied to any ideals of patriotism, as such. (This despite her being king nowadays -- but she's king of the Dragons, not king of the Mountains of Morning, and that's a relevant distinction.)

[vive_lavenir]

(also oh man I can't believe Gen is gone for this one.:P)

ME NEITHER dammit

[vive_lavenir]

Well, Jean Prouvaire died shouting Vive La France, so, uh. Yes. He considers himself a patriot, for sure. His concept of patriotism involves looking to the future, focusing on making it better, rather than embracing tradition or recreating past glory. He believes each nation has special good qualities. A patriot should respect other nations, but patriotism also involves particular loyalty to your nation and not to others. And that's just fine by Prouvaire.

Combeferre would say patriotism is just a means to a higher goal, which is the betterment of humanity. And he's a little uncomfortable calling himself a patriot. The term is too connected to jingoistic wars for him to really like it. For all that, he's still hilariously and ridiculously French.

[cassiefuckingcage]

I've got a better question for you, brother:

WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN CASSIEMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOU?

(If Cassie were a professional fighter, this would totally be her walkup music. She'd sing along and mean every word).