DE: Canon sucks

[yakalskovich]

Vikings is back!! I haven't seen it yet, though, and will approach it with a modicum of trepidation, even though I have snarfed up all the spoilers I could find on Tumblr -- I rarely avoid spoilers.

On that note: what is the most horrible, heart-wrenching, unsupportable thing that canon has ever done to your characters?

Comments

[forceimbalance]

Prequel trilogy.

EDIT: It occurs to me this is vaguely true in-canon as well as being a fundamental truth of the universe that they are the worst.

So there's that too.

[yinyangwizard]

According to folklore, when Seimei (as a little boy) accidentally discovered that his mother Kuzunoha was a fox, she decided that she had to leave him and go back to the wild. That's pretty harsh.

In my modified backstory for him things didn't go that way, but I did make him and his mother his dad's Secret Other Family, which is pretty heart-wrenching.

[tu_vas_triompher]

in b4 "bossuet was killed; feuilly was killed; courfeyrac was killed; joly was killed; Combeferre, transfixed by three blows from a bayonet in the breast at the moment when he was lifting up a wounded soldier, had only time to cast a glance to heaven when he expired"

...No but really, uh, Feuilly gets a pretty rough deal from canon. Probably most heart-wrenching is giving him so few lines, but what he does get includes "'Can any one understand,' exclaimed Feuilly bitterly, 'those men,—[and he cited names, well-known names, even celebrated names, some belonging to the old army]—who had promised to join us, and taken an oath to aid us, and who had pledged their honor to it, and who are our generals, and who abandon us!'" I'm looking at you, Lafayette. Way to disappoint Feuilly.

All of Gredya's children get killed in canon. :( She's post-canon in Milliways because dammit she's earned a break.

Hal, uh. Hal doesn't have to suffer a lot of consequences. The betrayal by his friends before setting off for France is probably painful, but since the audience has never met any of these guys before that scene it's hard to get too much investment in them. (That said, it's one of a series of deaths that isolate Hal from his past--Falstaff, the betraying friends, Bardolph--and the whole thing is pretty depressing.) The French army killing the boys in the camp is pretty awful but ummmmm it's a lot worse for the boys than it is for Hal. Historically, dying in his 30s of dysentery during his French campaigns is I guess kind of sad but maybe he could have tried not besieging so many French cities? Honestly, for me, the saddest thing for Hal happens before he shows up in any of the plays--his father's responsibility for the death of Richard II, with whom Hal had a good relationship. Hal still feels guilt over that, which really isn't on him.

[pro_patria_mortuus]

...I mean.

[pro_patria_mortuus]

Okay, that was the easy punchline answer, but it isn't actually dying. Enjolras wasn't exactly happy about that, but he was entirely accepting of it. It's the bit Jane quoted about everyone else dying too; it's having to execute a man, albeit for solid and immediate reason, when you're the kind of guy who will genuinely consider yourself a murderer for doing so; it's having doors shut to fighters who might have escaped anyway, because executing the guy wasn't enough to fix what he'd just done to undermine the barricade; it's Lafayette and all the rest disappointing Feuilly and the rest of them and leaving them hung out to dry.

[genarti]

Cosette: Her early childhood with the Thénardiers!

Although having her husband and father team up to lie to her until her beloved father, the supportive constant of her post-Thénardier life, died of it without her ever knowing most of what was going on is also an excellent contender. Which is why we went AU with that one in Milliways.

Thor: ...Loki.

Kazul: In contrast to the rest, Kazul does not have a particularly horrible, heart-wrenching, unsupportable thing-heavy canon. I'll have to ponder this one.

(Bonus round: Trowa: Also his entire childhood! River: The Academy.)

Wow, this one was easy. *laughing*

[sdelmonte]

Knox was never, ever used again. Seriously, how can this just keep ignoring him? (DC Comics, surely your next reboot has room for Knox.)

And speaking of DC, they killed Charlie. Granted, the "they" was Greg Rucka and he did that as part of a brilliant story arc for Renee Montoya. But he was still a great character. (Turning the Question into some sort of haunted faceless figure of legend and naming an unrelated character Vic Sage in the current era are pretty stupid, but not nearly as sad as killing a character.)

Kirk's death was a mess. But the death of Edith Keeler indirectly at Kirk's hands was the defining tragedy of the entire run of the original Trek (even more so than David Marcus's death).

My other characters haven't really suffered that sort of thing, though lord knows Swamp Thing gets put through the ringer on a regular basis. But he's in a horror comic, so what do you expect?

[yinyangwizard]

Sorry for the late reply, but as far as I can tell the worst thing that ever happened to Swamp Thing in canon was, well, everything. Canon. You know.

[maid_of_tarth]

Combeferre: see answers for Feuilly, Bossuet, and Enjolras. For Combeferre it is also not dying per se, but dying knowing the uprising failed, his friends are dead/dying, and the brighter future he wants won't come about without even more violent struggle.

Jehan Prouvaire was executed without a trial before he knew his side had lost (he learns post death in Milliways, but limiting the answer to life/canon). I would say his own brave defiant death was probably less of a tragedy for him than seeing one of his friends bayoneted right before, so let's go with Bahorel's death.

Brienne of Tarth: tie between Renly's murder and Catelyn Stark's murder.

Fantine: ...um. Spoiled for choice here, but it's an easy contest. The clear winner is the moment right before she dies when Javert shows up to arrest Valjean and Fantine realizes her daughter's would-be savior is gonna end up in prison before he can save Cosette's life. Which shocks the dying Fantine so much she dies right then, in total despair.

[clayforthedevil]

((Aww, Jehan. *hugs*))

[athelstanthescribe]

Gavroche - he was almost the first to die on the barricade, so he missed most of the really bad stuff, but watching Eponine die/seeing her pathetic little dead body be laid out is probably the winner. Which is why when he got the chance, he did absolutely everything in his power to make that not happen.

Athelstan - being crucified. With accidentally killing an innocent non-combatant as a close runner-up.

Giovanni Bruni - his canon is light on horrible heartwrenching things, being a comedy, but probably watching his twin sister walk to the gallows (and no, she's not hanged, comedy, but she gets as far as the noose being around her neck)

Michael Carpenter - um. His mentor and friend Shiro being brutally tortured to death? Being shot with a Kalashnikov and spending the subsequent year learning how to walk again, with permanent chronic pain? Charity being hurt so badly while eight months pregnant that she was rendered infertile? Alicia being kidnapped? Molly being within inches of being beheaded for breaking the Laws of Magic? Molly going crazy? Everything that happens to Harry? Take your pick.

Jonathan Levinson - He's pretty much the series' chew toy, but either a witch maddened with grief and dark magic coming after him for something he didn't do and wasn't even there for, just because he was friends with the guy who did, or his best friend turning on him out of the blue and stabbing him to death.

Nancy (The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances) - Jamie's death was bad. Jamie coming back from the dead and stalking her around London was worse.

Cadfael - I can't think of anything offhand. Maybe finding out Olivier had been taken prisoner, but nothing really terrible came of that.

Ichabod Crane (TV) - Just about everything from the time he wakes up in the 21st century. The show loves taking things he loves away from him.

James Norrington - realising how far onto the wrong side he'd gone.

John Childermass - I think probably losing Norrell and Strange and having to go on as the most experienced magician left in England.

[unshattered]

Asami - Crushing her dad to death in front of her... wasn't... the best. But if we're going to be honest about me watching it, her running off with Korra twenty minutes later pretty much made up for it.

Will - I don't mean to be like this, but: literally everything that happens in the show.

Abigail - The above being said, the only episode I haven't been able to legitimately rewatch is "Primavera." Sure I can watch "Mizumono" a dozen times, but every time I've tried to go back to "Primavera" I've ended up distracting myself because I can't do it again.

[aaaaaaaagh_sky]

Gordon's entire canon consists of heart-wrenching moments of utter betrayal, beginning with watching a United States Marine who was supposed to be part of the rescue squad murder a scientist who was running towards him for protection and ending with being forced to watch giant psychic space maggots slaughter his oldest friend and colleague. Also there was the part where he was pinned down by fallen wreckage and couldn't stop different alien monsters from all but killing Alyx. It's a wonder the man didn't lock himself in a small room and refuse to interact with human beings ever again... I'm going to go with the near-killing of Alyx for the worst part in-universe, and the total and utter failure to show any sign of ever being interested in finishing the canon on Valve's part for the out-of-universe unsupportable thing.

Shephard's canon is not as cruel to him as Gordon's, because Gordon's passage through the Half-Life universe is basically about betrayal and abandonment, whereas Shephard's is about a fighting man who's in over his head and trying to catch up with someone who can tell him what the fuck is going on. OpFor didn't really have a whole lot of heart wrenching compared to the main HL canon. I'm gonna go with the moment the G-Man made Shephard watch as he set off the nuke Shephard had battled to defuse, though.

Ellen's canon originally featured the really unsupportable moment of the final scene. You got to the Jefferson Memorial and were told someone had to power on the water purifier at the cost of their life- you, or Sarah Lyons. If you had a companion, you could ask them to do it, but every single possible companion would find an excuse not to make the attempt themselves. That included the companions who were immune to radiation (Fawkes, a possible robot, a possible ghoul) and the companions who had brainwashing that forced them to be utterly loyal and accept any order they were given (the ghoul, a collared slave from Paradise Falls). So either you had to agree to die on the spot, or you had to make Sarah Lyons die, and then the game called you awful names if you didn't agree to die. They changed that with the Broken Steel DLC, but apparently they couldn't get Ron Perlman back to re-record the final speeches, so the game still calls you awful names even if Fawkes agrees to help you out... anyway, the character being forced to go in and die was just awful and unsupportable in the original version of canon. With the DLC installed, I'd say the most really unsupportable and heart-wrenching part is the bit where the Lone Wanderer's father slams the doors shut and locks himself in a room with his assistant, two Enclave guys in power armor, and one Enclave officer, and then kills himself in an attempt to take out the Enclave guys despite the fact that his child just survived fighting several dozen of these guys in order to reach him and could almost certainly have saved him if he'd left the doors open. Did I mention you have to watch Dad die and later find out it was pointless because the Enclave officer survived?

Fawkes, well, he's a supporting NPC and canon doesn't really screw him over. Unless you want to count the cut content that I used for his background, anyway, in which he was a Vault security guard who was thrown into the medical experiments of Vault 87 as punishment for finding out about the medical experiments.

Stacker... I'm not sure Stacker ever heard his daughter's last words to him, and considering that she used the Japanese form of 'I love you' that most Japanese people only ever use once or twice in their entire lives, that's one hell of a tragedy. I can't say his death was the crushing moment because that was going to happen from the very beginning. He just didn't know exactly when or how.

Varric's depends on what you wind up doing with his brother. And then on what winds up happening in the Fade in DA:Inquisition. Because good Lord, man, if you make certain choices in the Fade, that is one utterly flattened dwarf.

Hernan Guerra's canon features the moment he attempts to play with his adopted sister by shaking the tree she's climbed up into. Unfortunately, he's got Kryptonian strength and she's got a human spine, and gravity is a bitch....

Santo's canon doesn't really have that kind of moment, at least not so far. Maybe in some of the movies from when he's older and approaching retirement.

And if Wee Mad Arthur's canon has that kind of moment for him, it's probably in Snuff, and I have no desire of any kind to ever read Snuff, so there you go.

[have_no_mercy]

Being brutally abused by her father ( who turned out to be her adoptive father but she didn't know it at the time) which was heavily implied to have been sexual as well. When she was ages 5-15.

[bjornwilde]

Rollo: Season 01 he was pretty disrespecting of any woman who wasn't Lagetha. I am glad to see that hasn't changed. I was very worried. Though his actions at the end of s4 ep01 are pretty shitty and I am not certain how to run with it. I know it's been in the trailers, but I still don't want to say too much due to spoilers.

ETA: Oh, wait, Siggy's death! She was the person who pulled him out of his spiral of self-destruction and gave him a purpose in life. Her death has hit him hard and likely is the cause of things in season 04.

Ahsoka: I don't know about unsupportable, but the end of season 05 of The Clone Wars was pretty heart wrenching, i.e. Ahsoka be thrown out of the Order, getting her innocence proven, being invited back, and then her deciding she needed to not be in the Order for a while.

The end of season 02 of Rebels is looking pretty grim as well, what with the trailers making it look like Darth Vader and Ahsoka are going to be fighting.

Izana: Sorry, spoilers.

Sam Wilson: To date, I'd say having his wings destroyed again and not being able to support Cap in the air. Pre-canon, it was losing Rhiley (his partner in the Falcon program) in the air while on a mission.

Selina: Pre-canon, her mom disappearing. In season 02, getting slapped by Alfred.

Sabine: The Imperial Academy. As a viewer, I'd say only giving us breadcrumbs of her past before the Ghost crew.

[bjornwilde]

You know, thinking about Sabine and Mandalore, I'd like to add the whole thing with the New Mandalorians (i.e. the pacifist Madalorians introduced in Clone Wars) and the warrior culture Mandalorians introduced in Legends/EU canon.

ETA: Wording fail on Rollo's bit. I meant to say that he changed and began to respect, or at least treat women much better in season 02 and I am glad to see that has not changed in season 04, i.e. he is not returning to his season 01 self.

[evil_koala_626]

There's a bunch to choose from! For a children's film, Lilo and Stitch hangs out in that kind of rarely visited place where yes, there are bright colors and slapstick to keep the kids happy but there's also this constant undertone of sadness. For my money, as far as Stitch goes I beleive the most heart wrenching scene comes in the sequel film.

To those who are unfamiliar with it, the premise of the second film revolves around something going wrong with Stitch's physiology. There's a brief hand wavy flashback where we see that the alien government raids Jumba's lab and takes both Jumba and Stitch into custody before Stitch's development is entirely complete. Back in the present it's explained that this means Stitch's body is failing, although none of the characters are aware of this. This is presented as Stitch going through what look an awful lot like seizures and reverting to his destructive programming.

After attempting to maul Lilo's hula class and destroying one of her projects, Stitch (who has struggled with his sense of identity and self worth over the course of both films) attempts to explain that something is wrong with him.

And Lilo, being a small child, in her anger goes for the jugular. "I know what's wrong with you! You're bad! And you'll always be bad!"

And then he flinches and looks miserable. Yay!



If we're talking meta, I'm going with the cartoon series. The series took this quirky little story that talked about how life can be overwhelming sometimes but loved ones can help get you through it and turned it into GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL!

I am not including the anime spinoff. Chris Sanders has made it very clear that no such train wreck ever took place.

[angry_friendship_wolf]

Digimon Adventure 01 ends on the cast, then eleven years old, having to leave their partners behind forever. It later gets retconned into not-actually-forever, because a sequel happened, and now another sequel has happened, but at the time, it was very much phrased as a 'You will probably never see them again' thing.

Yamato's still not done being bitter over that.

Other contenders include 'that episode where Yamato has a nervous breakdown and a cherry tree convinces him to betray his friends' and 'the depression cave.'

[annalalaith]

Well, Tegid's best friend was killed in front of him. And then burned. Oh, and he saw his world nearly destroyed because of butt heads from the manifest world trying to exploit his world for resources.

Daniel has been killed so many times it's a joke, but he saw his wife die, and he watched her taken by the Goau'ld, and her brother too. He also got really pissed at the ascended beings for their hands off policy.

And Wil, let me just say spoilers.

[ceitfianna]

Will: Being captured, tortured and almost hung.

Charles: In one horrible moment losing his ability to walk, his sister and his friend and lover.

Quentin: This is only up to his current point in canon. Seeing his girlfriend captured by the boogeyman of his childhood and transformed against her will into a horse then having to say goodbye to her forever with her forgetting him to keep her safe. Seeing Toby captured and almost executed, being shot and watching Toby bleed far too much.

Sameth: Almost being drowned and messed with by a necromancer, basically canon.

William: Seeing his father die and not being able to save him.

Moist: Nothing yet, but the start of his canon has him think he's been hung.

Ivan: Being used as bait for Miles and almost drowning in a small area that was filling with water in the dark. Thinking Miles had died is pretty high up there as well.

Jane: Finding out that she and Tom can't be together and having to do the right thing and give him up.

Demeter: Her daughter being taken and no one telling her where she was and while she was looking for her, Poseidon raped her.

Tumnus: Being turned into a statue.

[clayforthedevil]

Joly- thaaat'd be the cholera epidemic. It's glossed over in the text, but it was very much happening. Thousands of people dying horribly for reasons no one understood and no doctor could stop it, or even make the end a little more comfortable, the constant and horribly legitimate fear of spreading the disease--it was all a doctor's Worst Nightmare in the way a plague is. (it's even worse in Milli!canon, because Joly did know what was causing the outbreak, and still had no effective way of using that knowledge, because publicly available clean water just wasn't available.)

Bahorel- The Lallemand riots. It's...complicated. But it's the real point where he switched over from thinking he might possibly change his society through peaceful means to accepting that it was a long-running war, and that he would almost certainly die fighting in it. So it was kind of a Big Deal.

[death_gone_mad]

I knew something very bad was coming in Amascut's backstory so I was prepared, but yeah, Amascut was fridged to enhance her brother's story and that of the Mahjarrat. In an abandoned on the other side of the universe while being attacked by an Elder God sort of way.

Somehow she trashed the fridge and got out. Or she might still be in the process of doing so. How she escaped and made it home is a mystery so there may be more horrible backstory ahead.

[mighty_avenger]

Avengers #200