Monday DE

[bjornwilde]

Let's talk about the muns today. I've been listening to several podcasts on writing and they have me thinking a lot about writing styles. With this in mind, are you an outliner or pantser (I.e. Writing stories by the seat of your pants without making an outline or planning very much). Do you spend time making notes about characters, complete character sheets, etc., or do you let them develop as you write?

ETA: I know we may not all consider ourselves writers, and that we come here to have fun, but I figure the above questions apply to fanfic and OOMs as well as original works.

Comments

[just_cant_lose]

Pantser, to the ends of the earth and back. That said, I don't usually start anything until a few scenes have made themselves known in my head, and the general endpoint, along with the main character and most of (invariably) his personality. I can't call that planning though, as it usually just turns up on its own.

So then I write whichever scene refuses to leave me alone the most. It's usually the opening. And then it just goes from there, and the plot develops as I write. Things present themselves, connections click in, character dynamics sort themselves out. I find if I plan anything in detail - and I have tried - it lets all the air out and I feel like I'm ticking off boxes.

[genarti]

If we're talking fic, I'm an outliner. I don't tend to make a lot of notes about characters, but I do need a plot/fic outline for anything but a very short ficlet, especially if it's anything that involves multiple scenes. I'm not very good with plot, and I need that structure to keep me focused and remind myself of what each scene should do so I'm not just flailing vaguely around. And if it's an original story, I'm likely to do a lot of worldbuilding notes.

For RP, I do initial characterization/canon notes when I'm first apping a character. This often involves either typing up some particularly key sections of canon (if it's a book) or transcribing some key conversations (if it's an audiovisual canon) to make sure I have them to refer to. How much I do varies depending on the character and the canon. For example, Enjolras has at least a dozen locked posts on his journal with transcribed scenes from canon or compiled links to reference sites I was using when I first started writing him, because I knew I was going to want to refer to them a lot (and I still do). Kazul, on the other hand, has no locked reference posts at all, although my copy of Dealing With Dragons has some colored post-it flags marking things like descriptions and the described route from her cave to the Enchanted Forest. Thor has a lot of locked transcriptions of movie scenes because I was using them as reference for when I wrote OOMs of those scenes, but I don't generally refer to them for normal Milliways play. A lot of the time, part of my motivation for these initial notes is nailing down the character's voice; I find it very helpful to actually type out their canonical lines, because typing them forces me to absorb those syntax patterns word by word instead of skimming over them as a reader. Once I've been playing them for a bit, I don't go back and take more notes, unless I'm going to OOM them through more canon or something.

In terms of an outline of character arc in RP, though, I'm mostly a pantser. I have a very broad general idea of what I want to do with a character, which is sometimes get them to a position of greater happiness in life post-canon and sometimes play around with post-canon with Milliways opportunities and see where they go and sometimes just have a silly crack character to toss at people, but I never have a detailed outline. I believe firmly that it's more fun for me to see what develops organically.

[harryhotspur]

Oooh, the idea of doing transcriptions is so interesting!

[genarti]

I find it super helpful! Especially for anyone where I'm having any difficulty with the voice, whether it's that it's an unusual or precise voice (o hai Victor Hugo's 19th centuryness) or it's that it's a very ordinary voice and I want to make sure I'm matching the actual patterns instead of a similar but more default kind of syntax. (e.g. Thor instead of a Default Formal Warrior Dude voice.)

I find it hugely helpful for pastiche too. Anything where I want to really slow down and make sure I'm internalizing the right kind of syntax patterns. Any time I'm doing canon notes, it's likely to be half outliney facts at most, and at least half just straight-up quotes typed out.

[bcgphoenix]

It depends! I'm an outliner when I write fic, so that carries over to OOMs, if nothing else. If I'm the only player in my canon -- or, in Alistair's case, the only player in a specific timeline in that canon -- I'll keep a running list of OOMs I'd like to write that shape themselves to a broader character arc. But with in-bar stuff or some threaded OOMs, I'm more of a pantser: "Let's throw these two together and see what happens!" (The big exception to this are plot-related threads: things like the blizzard and its aftermath, for example. Then, I'll talk with my RP partner about what emotional/plotty beats we want to hit.)

So, yeah, I think I use the pantser strategy to get the initial connection to form, and then gradually swap to more of an outliner strategy as the connection deepens.

Also, I take so many notes when I'm first apping a character. Gaeta's initial note file was nine pages long. Alistair's is about seven and still growing. It gets a bit ridiculous, but it also helps me get in character, so! Whatever works. :D

[crabbycustomer]

In RP, I am probably notorious as a planner, but the truth is it's only because I have really complicated crazy ideas and it takes a long time to move all of the pieces into place. In fic or when I am OOMing all on my own, I tend to just cut to the chase, and to be honest I think the stories suffer for it. The best stories I've ever been able to tell have been collaborative, slowed down by that pace and shaped by the give and take.

I find it really helpful in RP to have plot points I am steering towards and to keep throwing out stuff that could lead that way, and let things gradually coalesce around it. If I have a long-range plan in mind, I can notice when the perfect opportunity to dovetail two different storylines comes up or to lay down foreshadowing/exposition that will support what is eventually coming. That's why I kind of stalled out on Karkat until we knew where Homestuck was going and what would or wouldn't be revealed in the end.

[mogget_cat]

I tend to write with a general arc in mind, a few key scenes and an end-point to aim for, but all the details are spur-of-the-moment.

Sometimes I'll think I have a complete character profile, and then they'll surprise me with unintended character development which requires a change in how I play them. That unexpected growth is often the most fun part. :D

[never_promised]

pants, pants, nothing but pants

[freedom_is_grey]

I fly by the seat of my pants, I don't have themes planned, I rarely have a character arc planned, things just crop up and I run with them. Sometimes looking back I can see connections being made, but that's fortuitous subconscious stuff at work and not any kind of plan at all.

Blodwen and Raven's arc cracks me up for that reason, because ahahahaha. Ha.

[bjornwilde]

I've been a pantser but I think I am becoming an unholy hybrid. I tend to get bursts of inspiration that translate great on the page for a scene or two, or for a ficlet, but then peter out if I don't keep poking at it. Now I've started playing with a very loose and bare bones outline, more elevator pitch length descriptions of acts to the thing really, and it seems to be working.

As for characters, I tend to get them pretty clearly in my head and let them evolve as they story goes. I have noticed I will ask them questions though and that tends to be how they get fleshed out.

As for RP characters, I'm kind of like Genarti above but less organized. Like i will make notes of important info I think might come up or book mark important bits from the canon, but I don't transcribe often enough. It's also more details rather than character scenes. I think I might be changing this though.

As to RP and plotting, totally by the seat of my pants, although I've noticed lately I've been meaning to plan stuff a bit better, though it's more of how much time to I leave the pup in a certain stage of their canon vs real time.

ETA: Oh, and I am also a big fan of beat sheets, or lists of scenes I want to do. These scenes don't always make it into the thing I am writing but I find they are a good way for me to not forget the cool ideas.

[yinyangwizard]

I am more of an outliner than I used to be, but that really just puts me in "in between" territory. I do not plan out big OOMs and plot arcs but I do keep track of my characters' history (background notes, not character sheets as such) and maintain an idea of where they are and where I want to go with them.

For example, I have a general plan for YT's life over the next few years. It's not a plot, but a consistent thread that will help me track what's going on with her at a given time, how her experiences inside and outside of Milliways might affect each other, etc.

[harryhotspur]

I'm somewhere in between the two-- a creative Deist? I like to have something of an inkling going in (like Write, I rarely start anything unless I have at least a few mental checkpoints to be writing towards). The characters I've RPed most successfully are those for whom I have a sense of where Milliways can take them, not necessarily in terms of actual plots, but in terms of an emotional arc, or what they can discover about themselves, etc. Which is... really something I should keep in mind more when apping, but anyway. >__>

Once I have that initial set-up, though, in clockmaker fashion, I just let it run and see what happens. I enjoy, though, when a scene is happing and a conversation stemming from it allows some dots to be connected in advance, and to plan things out maybe a step or two ahead of the characters-- but even that comes from and is subject to change based on what rises up organically from scenes.

[ceitfianna]

Pantser with tiny outlines which helps for doing OOMs with people and going, this, this and this but most of it happens as we write. I might note some useful sites and info for characters but its mainly all in my head and develop as I write.

Also whenever I bring a character in, I tend to have a general idea of where I want to take them. Sometimes that changes if I didn't pick a big enough arc, that's why Ivan's in younger so I can do more with him.

[misslucyjane]

I'm a hybrid for both fic/fiction writing and RP.

With RP, I have kind of a larger arc in mind, but I like to be surprised along the way and make adjustments accordingly. Still, there are some things that have to happen (like the Fall for Sherlock or Ultron for Steve); but I can play with things that come up (like 'ships. Oh, the 'ships. BET YOU WEREN'T EXPECTING THAT, WERE YOU, SELF.)

With fic and original fiction, I start with a general idea of where I want to go, but again, allow for surprises along the way. I usually think of it as, I know I want to get from point A to point Z, but I don't always know what point L, M, and N are. That's in rough drafts anyway; in subsequent drafts it's usually a matter of tightening things up, filling in the plot holes, and making things make sense. I can't remember who said it now, but somebody who knows what he's talking about said the rough draft is just you telling yourself the story. I like that approach. It's worked well for me lately.

...she said after 300, 000 words of drafts in the last thing. *cough*

[bjornwilde]

I envy you (and others like you) for being able to crank out that kind of word count. Some days I can't seem to get 400 without my inner self dragging its feet like a pouty toddler.

[mightbeagoodone]

I didn't write all that in one day ;).

[no_more_hiding]

True. I still tend to fizzle after I get 1k or so. Something I am trying to work on.

[mightbeagoodone]

See, that's why I think having at least a general plan is a good idea. The best writing days for me are when I know exactly what I want to accomplish that day.

[no_more_hiding]

Precisely why I'm trying my loose outline approach. If nothing else it will remind me there are things to look forward to while I am chopping firewood and carrying water during a less exciting part of the writing. =)

[not_that_count]

Pantser.

[andinfluencepeople]

What podcasts? I'm always interested in recs :)

I'm obsessive about characterization, but don't really plan plot for characters in RP. I sort of go back and forth between pantsing and plotting for fic but I never really go beyond the roughest of outlines.

[bjornwilde]

The two that have stuck for me are:
Writing Excuses. I love these guys because each episode is 15 minutes and they get into the nitty gritty. Topics range but it is very much deconstructing the writing process into usable tools. Currently hosted by Brandon Sanderson, Mary Robinette Kowal, Howard Tayler and Dan Wells. Chatter can happen but they are very good about staying on topic.

The Roundtable. THis one I am still warming up to. I love the concept, two hosts who write with a more famous author as guest take a story pitch an aspiring author presents them and they hash out ways to improve the story and/or polish it up. The only issue I have with this one is the main host loves to talk and, for me, rambles too much. Seriously, he spent ten minutes introducing the guest author. I've gotten in to the habit of FF past the first ten minutes because of this. This podcast runs longer, like an hour at least.

[andinfluencepeople]

I'm loving Writing Excuses! I'm just stuck both wanting to listen to their entire archive AND wanting to do the homework, haha. I'll check the other one out later :). Thank you!

[i_am_your_host]

Pantser. I write my OOMs in the manner of flash fics, sort of, I guess. I have to feel it to write it, and I have to finish it in one sitting, or in two days, tops. But at the same time, if I'm not immediately inspired by some prompt or concept, I do have ideas and scenes that I keep in my head to stew until they're just right. Until I really feel them. And until I feel I can do them justice with words. Luckily I tend to be a minimalist in that regard so I don't need many of them (which is why NaNoWriMo has always been a masochistic struggle that I've stopped doing it).