Thursday DE

[needsmoreresearch]

Everyone loves an underdog, right? Okay, not necessarily. But would you describe your character as "the underdog," scrappy or otherwise, in their setting? And whether or not you agree, do they think of themselves that way?

Comments

[death_gone_mad]

In one sense, no, Amascut is not the underdog, she is a goddess who walks amongst mortals and causes them all sorts of trouble. On the other hand she is a minor goddess, exponentially weaker than more widely known and worshipped gods, and then there are the even more powerful Elder Gods. In her own mind and story, she is the underdog and rebel trying to find a way to fix everything. She doesn't even have a trump card over the other gods like her brother, a literal dog god of the underworld, has.

Also, she hates that word; underdog. It reminds her of her brother and implies that what he is doing is right.

[quick_clean_pure]

Sort of! He is the only main character in the movie that has zero real power over the world around him. He's not entirely helpless or anything, but he is a homeless dude constantly running from cops while everyone else is either a member of the elite or someone with close ties to them.

But on the other hand, unlike half the cast, he doesn't die! :D :D :D

[oldmancreed]

Tess sees herself as the underdog in certain situations. Very much so when she first arrived in Smallville.

Rose is an underdog, but she doesn't see herself as such.

Kylo and Creed? They laugh. If Kylo laughed.

[bjornwilde]

Ahsoka Tano: I don't think Ahsoka has ever been an underdog. Well, maybe when she was a toddler and that bounty hunter tried to kidnap her by pretending to be a jedi. Or maaaybe in the Clone Wars movie before Anakin accepted her, but definitely not since then. An argument might be made that as Fulcrum and working with the Rebellion, she's an underdog, but no. Yes, she is working for an underdog, but she isn't one.

Sabine Wren: Definite underdog, her and the whole crew really. I don't think she'd call herself an underdog though. She acknowledges the team is outnumbered, but they are not outclassed. (Cue Vader breathing mp3)

Sam Wilson: Funny enough, he and team Cap are underdogs, both in Winter Soldier and Civil War. I won't say anything about Infinity War.

Hank McCoy: Another underdog. Pretty much the whole theme of X-men is they are underdogs trying to prove they shouldn't be. Hank is also an underdog in that he keeps having to fight mutants who have so much more power than him. (Grumbles at Singer that Hank is a friggin' Omega level mutant if you'd let him use his damn mind instead of just having him fighting. Have him fight smart damn it!) I think Hank wouldn't argue the point of being an under dog either.

Danny Rand: Totally sees himself as an underdog at present. Even with the trauma he's endured, he isn't really. He has so much privilege and he won't begin to see it until Luke gives him the clue-by-four.

Shinatose Izana: They, and everyone on board Sidonia, are underdogs. I mean, they're being chased by space kaiju that are invulnerable to anything but one substance in the universe. Beyond that though, Izana is the underdog at the Academy, not being among the higher ranks of the pilots cadets, nor among the higher ranks of active pilots now. Their place in the romance subplot(s) is also as the underdog, as while Nagate values them, he's clueless that they have any affection for him. To be fair to him, he grew up with only one other person who only trained them how to be a pilot.

I think Izana would agree to being an underdog if the concept were explained to them.

Tybalt: Tybalt has only been an undercat once in his life and that was by choice and was a means of clinging to his immortal coil. He no longer has the luxury of being an undercat, for his people need him too much. He would readily agree he was at a disadvange early in life, though would take exception to being labeled an 'underdog'.

[forceimbalance]

I can think of one situation where Ahsoka is totally the underdog.

Maybe even two, if you count that later one.

(PS)

[bjornwilde]

OK, that last meeting wasn't on equal footing, but she did score a hit!

And with the second one, at least she was smart enough to run! After deflecting that fire.

ETA: And really, unless you are Luke, Vader and Palps are always going to dominate.

[inlovewithwords]

Palps even if you are Luke, honestly. And to an extent Vader; it's just the fight that particular underdog can win.

[bjornwilde]

Very much this.

[inlovewithwords]

Eriond: lolno

Lois: Frequently! Especially teen Lois, before she's a Famous Reporter. But also, like, in general, until Clark comes to punch things, she's totally fighting defensive.

Evelyn: Hell yes. Less so by the end, but like, she's up against several different kinds of apocalypse. Everyone's the underdog in Thedas, with a handful of exceptions.

R2: Frequently! He's not the most combat ready and it's easy to short him out. So, y'know, werp.

Anakin: Kiinda, in Phantom. Just a kid up against slavery and a war and all. After that, yeah no, he's just not
Vader: Consequences come of asking that question

Tavi: Wow is that time period dependent, including to what extent.
Book 1 (and any time prior): 100%. He has no furycrafting, no visible social connections, no real experience, and then gets dropped into a massive treason plot. To say nothing of bullying. Ha ha no.
Book 2: 80-90%. He's got training and connections, a little anyway--and honestly training enough to actually overcome some more powerful than him. He's mildly terrifying. But also he's up against something insanely big and powerful people, and he's totally still a step behind in terms of preparedness.
Book 3: Oddly enough, 70-80%. Way more training, and by the end he has a command position, but he was the lowest commissioned officer and up against treason and an invasion of about 6-to-1 size. And of, like, giant wolfmen summoning eldritch abominations. And he still didn't have furycrafting, and no prior command experience. Definitely still underdog, because he keeps facing bigger problems... but uh. Starting to get there.
Book 4: Ooooof. Politically he totally starts out that way and basically leverages his way out of it. But that's the whole point of being an underdog, I guess, so let's say maybe 50-60%. Also, still definitely underdog for any fights with powerful Alerans.
Book 5: 50%. He's got command, he forces respect and people listening through sheer "Only one who has an idea how to deal with this," he has resources but they're limited, and he's up against a Zerg apocalypse that kind of already happened (plus still no ability to drop mountains on it).
Book six: ... hrm. 50%. Politics is complicated and could have gone either way without a assassin for a friend. Up against apocalypse that again had sort of already happened and needed to be reversed. Has ability to drop mountains now, but... so does his opponent, and she's frankly stronger than he is, and he's wildly outnumbered.
Post-canon: ha ha ha ha ha ha he and his family and (assassin) friends eliminated everyone who was keeping him the underdog. So underdog victory, I guess?

I mean Tavi totally has PC glow so in-world totally underdog and narratively lolno not how Butcher works. But

[bjornwilde]

Another great Vader moment.

[i_am_your_host]

Emcee is an underdog, has been and always will be. He does see himself that way, in that he's fully aware of his position in society and how other people perceive him and treat him because of what he is (queer, Jewish, prostitute, addict, and soon he'll be an immigrant). Though he isn't physically scrappy, he still has a 'fuck you, I do what I want' attitude.

Pam is a vampire superior to humans in every way, but there is the Vampire Authority who have had her and Eric under their thumb for the past twenty years or so. They were rogues punished for evading them and not complying with their orders. For a while she might have considered themselves underdogs, but now they're successful enough for her to not care.

Cassidy is not an underdog, he's just...a dog. He's just here for his next fix, dude.

Floki thinks of himself as an underdog in a similar way that Loki is an underdog. In that sort of 'one day they will all appreciate me' kind of way, but with less malice. He knows that he's different from everyone else, so he constantly works hard at his craft to prove his worth, yet he still feels undervalued.

[troublesome_alchemist]

On one hand, Mustang Really Isn't an underdog. He has the military and alchemy on his side...

On the other hand, pretty much every human in this series is an underdog because... welp. You're just a means to an end, bebes. That's the plan, anyway.

He'd never see himself as the underdog. He fully believes he has the power, tactical ability, and sheer nerve to get to his goal. What, a bigger target is supposed to be scary? It just makes it easier to hit.

[genarti]

Enjolras: ...Enhhh. *handwobble* It depends a lot on the context? Like, he's in a reasonably secure place in his society -- he's male, his family's rich, he's well-educated, he's (almost certainly and millicanonically) bourgeois. On the other hand: very very few people are actually secure in his society, and the radical republican side of the uprisings he fought and eventually died in was definitely the underdog side. Basically, what I would say and what I think he would say is that he's on the side of the underdogs, but with more resources than most which he can bring to bear to help others.

Thor: Hahahaha no. He's many things, but an underdog generally is not one, and he certainly doesn't think of himself that way.

Cosette: Is a different kind of handwobble enhhhh one. She's rich, she's (raised as) bourgeoise, she's always been materially comfortable, and now she's happily married. But she would be socially (though not financially) ruined if her antecedents or her father's came out, she's a woman in a society where married women basically belong to their husbands, and see above about nobody being really secure in this society. I guess I would say no, she's not an underdog right now, mainly because she's not really in a fight against anyone, you know? In other contexts she might be -- or might not be -- but right now, no. (Now, in her childhood, absolutely.)

Kazul: ...is King of the Dragons. No. She is not an underdog.

Doctor Dinosaur: Uhhhh. Well, he sees himself as SUPERIOR IN ALL WAYS TO THE FILTHY MAMMALS, WHOSE TIMELINE HE WILL SOON ANNIHILATE!!!, so I don't think that counts as scrappy underdog, no. I wouldn't call him the underdog, either, though I would call him the antagonist who's doomed by genre to perpetual defeat even if he gets some good blows in too.

[angry_friendship_wolf]

Yamato: The team spend most of 01 as underdogs. They're seven kids in a world that's completely alien to them, apart from their 'mons the only real ally they have is uncommunicative at best and actively scheming at worst, and they're almost always outmatched both in power and numbers. The only time the tables get turned is during the Odaiba arc, where they get to leverage their home field advantage to even things out somewhat (and then the Dark Masters arc starts and violently slaps them back down to being underdogs).

In Tri, even though they're playing defense most of the time, I'm not sure you'd really call them underdogs. They, like all four of the camps at play, have their advantages and disadvantages: The Bureau has considerable pull in the real world, but no firepower; Homeostasis has firepower, but is very limited in how much she can act; Gennai has a comprehensive knowledge of how to manipulate every party involved, and the clearest understanding of the conflict, but even when he acquires soldiers, he still can't match Homeostasis or the kids for sheer blowing-stuff-up firepower; and the kids have plenty of destructive power on their side, but know the least about what's actually going on, and don't really have any of the influence or reach that the Bureau or Gennai have.

(In wider society, meanwhile, Yamato really is an underdog. Late-90s-early-2000s Japan is not a friendly time and place to either the children of divorcees or mixed-race people, and as a result he sits firmly at the bottom of the class structure.)

Eden: I'm not sure keyblade wielders can ever rightly be called underdogs. If the games demonstrate anything, it's that there's really not much that can stand up to a halfway determined keybearer, except maybe another keybearer who's also Leonard Nimoy. But then, that's also the point of Daybreak Town and the Keyblade War, in a way: It's not any kind of outside force that brings them down, it's their own internal strife.

[just_cant_lose]

Jim is the opposite of underdog. He is the overdog. He is fully aware of it. He sees the world as the underdog beneath him, all while acknowledging his own worthlessness in the grand scheme. If there were a grand scheme, which there isn't.

Everyone else, bar the obvious exception, is just more worthless than him, that's all. And God no, he's not scrappy. Ugh. *shudder*