DE: It's a kind of magic

[bjornwilde]

From electro_kinetic :
So, Milliways is a pretty technologically advanced place if you don't go for the magic explanation. How does your pup try to explain the wonders of The Bar to people who're pre-Industrial Revolution? Conversely, if your pup *is* pre-Industrial Revolution, how do they accept Milliways' 'magic by another name'?

Comments

[camwyn]

Hektor of Troy was about eight years old the first time I brought him into the Bar. One of the first people to encounter him was Kara Zor-El, who explained to him that the Bar was the dwelling place of a goddess who presided over the ending of things, and who brought people to Her precincts from time to time for reasons of her own. This made perfect sense to Hektor and he pretty much attributed everything else of technological wonderment to the goddess' power. (There was a lot of this. As a denizen of the Bronze Age, Hektor was from a time before glass was used in windows. He never entirely understood doorknobs. Toilets he sort of understood, because there had been Cretans at the Trojan court and the Cretans had running water inside the house to carry the night soil away, but he never did get the hang of what was going on that enabled the taps on the sink to work. Things like that.) A lot of other stuff was more or less chalked up to foreigners having strange ways- the sheer prevalence of trousers, for example. I don't think it ever really sank in for him just how many people could, and did, read and write- or how much writing there was out there.

The Silver Corporal wasn't pre-Industrial Revolution, but he was from between 1904 and 1920 (he was a member of the Royal North-West Mounted Police; the 'Royal' part was added to the NWMP name in 1904, and in 1920 they merged with the Dominion Police to become the RCMP). He was also from rural background, being from Wyoming cattle country and working in Canada's far northwest, so his interaction with technology was somewhat on the limited side. He tended to attribute a lot of Milliways' more advanced tech to those clever fellers back East who were always tinkering. I think what impressed him the most about tech was how incredibly consistent things were. He'd seen manufactured goods, after all, but nothing with the level of refinement and quality control you got in Milliways stuff from after his time. (I kind of miss playing him, but he really doesn't work that well outside of his environment.)

[sdelmonte]

Gibbs was always confused by the humming lights and other signs of the future. The idea of steamships offends him. Oddly, he was more comfortable with far future tech. I guess it always seemed like magic in a way that electric lights and steamships don't.

None of my other pups ever needed to explain future tech to anyone. Which is good since most would have a lot of trouble making sense.

[camwyn]

And now I kind of want to see his reaction to a Jaeger from Pacific Rim.

[souffle_girlek]

First: OMGomgomgomg case review day I wanna go hide under the bed augh. Also? Augh.


Okay.

Oswin/Clara: is either too far from the future or already exposed to too much weird to really worry about the Bar. It just is, it seems fairly benign, so long as it doesn't do anything to her drinks she's good. Victorian!Clara accepted the idea of magic readily enough.

Haymitch: Neither knows what's going on, nor cares. He's not so much of a 'I must know how this technology works' sort of guy as a 'I must know how to use this' sort of guy. He hasn't a clue why forcefields work, he just knows if you fling an ax at it, the ax is going to be making a return trip along the same route pretty dang quickly.

Glorfindel: Accepts it as magic. He's also unsure as to why this is in question.

Katya: Knows it is magic, thinks that the Bar is the most wonderful thing of ever, and has only hid the fact there's a magic bar from teeny!Nat, because no one needs a spooked Soviet girl.

Bones: Doesn't quite believe the magic thing, but he lives in a world of replicators - a technology basis for it isn't hard to understand. He just thinks of the bar as a slightly malfunctioning AI.

Ace: Has dealt with the TARDIS - the Bar is fairly tame after that. She thinks of it along the same lines - it may be magic, but sufficiently advanced technology (etc etc). Either way, it makes brilliant cocoa.

Balthazar: Also knows it's magic. Is kind of surprised this is such a widelly-advertised fact. He also fails to explain anything, so this has not been a problem. >.>

[imagemist]

*pets*

[vance_prime]

Most of my pups are from worlds where magic and technology comfortably coexist, so Alyx is the only one for whom this is an issue. Generally, she just assumes that the "magic" she encounters follows some scientific principle that mankind hasn't yet discovered.

[ceitfianna]

I really like this question as a few of my pups have been the ones others are explaining to. One of the first times I recall apologizing for how little my pup knew was when Guardian Bob was trying to explain electricity and computers to Will. Leesha did a great job with it but it wasn't easy.

Oh and I was woken up by a school that wanted to talk to me, it was wonderful and nice.

Will considers Bar some of the most wonderful and safest magic he's ever encountered. In terms of other technology, he takes it all with a large grain of salt and tends to not go too far in depth with any of it. He has a general idea of electricity and computers but for him, they're like knowing how to read and write. It helps to make sense of the future but not something he uses outside of Milliways.

Charles isn't as tech focused, he's more fascinated by the ideas that appear in the various futures. There are some areas of technology he'd like to learn more about but over all he likes the options.

Sameth is from an odd canon where Ancelstierre is like 1920s tech and then the Old Kingdom is medieval fantasy and he's a magical engineer. For him, he wants to know how everything in Milliways works but he also is accepting of the idea that some things are types of magic he doesn't know. That happens for him at home where he can understand a lot of how Abhorsen spells work but compared to Wallmaker spells, they don't come as easily to him. He firmly believes given enough time and understanding that he can figure out how something works in Milliways.

Moist is from a heavily magic canon and a lot of technology to him gets put under magic I don't understand. He also chooses to not understand unless it will be useful for him.

William is curious about how a lot of tech works but due to his own issues with feeling inferior, he doesn't ask a lot of questions. He likes learning and appreciates when someone does try to explain to him but as long as he knows how to get what he wants from something, he's fairly satisfied. In terms of magic, he accepts it as a partial explanation for some issues and all for others, Katya has taught him that sometimes its best to not know.

Jane would like to know more and wishes magic wasn't the best explanation for many things in Milliways. She's curious about modern technology but like Charles far more interested in how ideas and viewpoints change than the actual tech.

Demeter has lived through a lot of centuries and finds technology slightly interesting but is wary of it. She thinks it gets in the way.

Tumnus isn't that curious about a lot of modern technology and readily accepts the magic explanation due to how magical his canon is. He's more curious about different ideas and concepts.

The Pirate King doesn't really think about it either way.

[bjornwilde]

Pretty much none of my pups have a problem with the magic vs. tech question.

Ben, Val and Jess come from Marvel comics which has both high tech and high magic. Ben would likely use either to explain Milliways, taking his cue for which for which would be easiest to understand from whoever he is speaking to. Jess would use which ever would require her to explain the least. While Val might be up for a long discussion on which it could be.

Hank McCoy has just accepted it is either true magic or an advanced technology. Funny enough, for a pup who I would have expected to try and examine the Bar to understand it, he's pretty blasé about the whole thing. I hope this not me being lazy.

Anton accepts it is magic and likely would use such to explain it to others if need be.

Andrea is likely the same as Hank, seeing it as either magic or tech. She just loves the fact that tech works so reliably within the bar that she's doesn't care why.

And Quinlan comes form a high tech environment and I am sure he is quite fascinated by the replicator technology but to him it is just that, technology. I don't know how he would explain things if pressed.

[damncompass]

Joshua's pretty much accepted that the Bar's beyond him. At least at the moment, so don't feel too bad.

He might change if he gets bored in the future, but for now, he's leaving it be.

[bjornwilde]

This is very true. Oh and this just reminded me of the one EP I did with Artemes Gordon trying to see how bar worked. He kept ordering drinks to try and spot the trap door.

[not_my_sandbox]

My two pups are strange on the whole magic/technology thing. Gielinor is going through an Enlightenment Age right now. The most advanced weapons tech right now unless you count magic as tech powered by science no one has bothered to understand is the dwarf multicannon which is very steampunky but has some kind of auto-targeting system that is never explained in game. It probably has a magical eye of some sort; the dwarves don't mess with magic much except for superheat ore spells so I don't know where they would get a magical eye spell. An electric eye is doubtful as well as the only people working with on the principles of electromagnetism right now have no affiliation with the dwarves.

Well... no, Oldak the cave goblin might have designed a ElectroMagical eye targeting system for them. The dwarves and cave goblins have some sort of trade agreement.

Wait, no, the dwarves are in the middle of an industrial revolution right now. They have blast furnaces and conveyor belt style pickax factories.

... The division between tech and magic is very blurry, especially in a world where the forces behind magic are considered fundamental forces just like electromagnetism and gravity.

So anyway, Fairy Fixit doesn't see much of a distinction. Plus she comes from Zanaris, a nexus/borderworld much like Milliways only a tad bit more Xen-like, so that complicates things.

Amascut's thoughts on the matter are harder to discern. She has been around long enough to see civilizations fall and grow back up again, so who knows what tech she has seen develop or invade. Transformer-like robots where apparently a thing, though admittedly before her time. As Sarah, she has to play at coming from (mostly) pre-industrial Gielinor, and will treat Bar things as advanced magic/tech that she must learn.

[imagemist]

Elrond sees Bar as magic, but he also knows that skill and patience, among other things, may seem magic to the uninitiated. Which is which here isn't something he has delved into.

Clay is a simple fellow. He doesn't label it. IT just is the way it is, like the Forest.

Eric doesn't really care although the fact that he plays by the rules do suggest that he believes Bar is, at its heart, magical. You don't fuck with magic.

Unless it asks you nicely and bares its throat at the same time.

[never_shall_yield]

Gene - is not even comfortable with new technology of his own (1970s) time. Surveillance equipment? HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS. But he gets used to it, as long as Tyler's doing the operating. When it comes to the bar, he is very much of the 'as long as it gives me drinks, I don't give a toss', and his explanations to newbies are generally along those lines too.

Neither of the Bruces' have had to explain it yet, I don't think. Or...maybe Banner. I think he's just like 'eh, science. Or maybe magic. I'll try and work it out, one day - until then, just relax'.

Javert - aha. How does he accept it? Uh, he doesn't. I mean, he thinks the bar is Purgatory, and he isn't interested in how anything works. It's just there, and at the moment, he thinks that if he ignores it, it might go away. Hopes so, rather.

[ceitfianna]

Oh Javert, his idea makes a lot of sense but I kind of want to pat him on the head and then run away as he'd hate that.

Also Charles in my head was thinking that group therapy with Javert and Bruce could be interesting. I think that would be tough on your brain but it was one of my thoughts after reading the OOM.

[never_shall_yield]

*caclesnort* I can imagine his face if someone patted him on the head. PURE GOLD. :D

And that is actually a very interesting idea. I'm intrigued by it, and how it would go. Bruce would probably be open to the idea, given the conversation in the OOM. And Javert...well, he's easy to take advantage of, at the moment, so I worry a bit about that. He's sort of just letting things happen to him, and will accept anything he wouldn't normally, as punishment. But if it happened informally, or it was explained to him first, then he'd probably...still just shrug, and say 'do as you will to me'. So, I dunno. Let me think on it?

[mjolnir_retriever]

Thor is from a world technologically advanced enough -- in terms of both science and magic, though that's not a distinction they draw -- that explaining things to 21st century humans is pretty similar as far as he's concerned! However, he's also not a scholar or particularly concerned with precision here. So he'll just sort of throw out vague layman-level explanations until either a) the person seems satisfied (and doesn't seem to have the facts wrong in any way that will lead to rudeness or deep inconvenience), or b) the person starts demanding more specific details in a way that makes sense to Thor.

River does care about precision of terminology, but she's also aware that she sucks at explanations. So unless the person seems likely to grasp the scientific terminology she'd throw out to explain her hypotheses on the mechanisms of all this, she's likely to just go with "...Magic!" SURE WHY NOT, says River. The lack of detail and precision is annoying, but it's a lesser evil than frustration.

Regan is very well aware that Milliways is full of WEIRD AND DISCONCERTING THINGS, so she doesn't blame anyone else for being weirded out by it. She tends to start with "Well, does your world have magic?" and then tailor her answer from there. The gist in any case is basically "People tell me all this is magic; I'm somewhat dubious, but I don't have a better explanation. At any rate, here's what I've observed, and you can draw your own conclusions from that."

Clare doesn't even try. Clare sucks at explanations.

Trowa is in Regan's camp, except less empathetic about it and a tad more skeptical about magic. (He doesn't doubt the results, but it might be sufficiently advanced technology.) And less inclined to give away everything he's observed -- not by a long shot does he do that -- but he's spent a lot more time observing Milliways in a much more focused fashion than Regan has, so her 'all the important details for a first-timer' and his 'a vague overview of the most obvious things, phrased with greater apathy and far less detail than is accurate, and framed in such a way as to imply that this is all I know' work out to about the same thing.

Enjolras, on the other hand, is from mid-Industrial Revolution! This hasn't come up yet, since he has yet to enter. But he is a) dead, so will assume this is all an afterlife thing, and b) a big believer in Progress And The Future without being a scientist interested in how the exact mechanics work, so he will be a-okay with accepting all of this as miraculous future technology that humans will invent to ease their lives and better the world etc.