DE: But officer....

[bjornwilde]

In honor of all the Les Mis folks, how does your pup feel about the law? Is it a guideline or inviolate? Will they take matters into their own hands if they see someone breaking them? Do circumstances influence their interpretation of the law or is the law black and white?

Comments

[a1enzo]

Guardians are about protecting their world and people, not, strictly speaking, about law enforcement. They are generally in favour of the law, since for the most part it also exists to protect people, and they will frequently work closely with local police forces, but they have their own operational parameters.

Enzo, in particular, would hold the law as more than a guideline but less than inviolate: it is a rule to be followed unless the breaking of it would clearly do more good. And yes, if he sees someone breaking the law in a way that doesn't actually help people, he will definitely step in.

[never_shall_yield]

I'll answer for the others later, once I have braved the school run. But a quick Javert answer:

Basically, Javert/Law = OTP.

Except they are currently going through a painful divorce, and bets are even on who'll come out the winner.

[varadia]

The Law is not mocked.

[nocarename]

*eyes pup list*
*yes, even the ones I only play in sandboxes*

The law is... handy, yes and should be followed if it's not too much work or wrong.

But an unjust law is no law that should be followed and choosing between following the rules and saving a life is no choice at all.

It's surprisingly consistent! Ako did start out more law abiding, but she started hanging out at a bar and was pushed at fell in with a bad crowd.

Because for some reason, everyone wanted to talk about this in their own voices....

[damncompass]

Joshua: Laws, no matter what my father's friends would have said, are a good thing. However, there are times and things that are much more important than the law. Hell, we couldn't do half of what we do at the Warehouse if we followed the law strictly. No, I'm not going to kill people wantonly, but if I have to steal their thing because it's making people go cray, I'm going to take it from them. I'll try to find a way to pay them for it somehow.

Helena: Laws are only as good as the people who make them, darling, and as people are imperfect, so are the laws. Laws also always reflect culture, and if your culture is oppressive or intolerant, there will be a lot of people defying that culture. I do so prefer modern American ideas on law. Well, most of them at any rate.

Valentine: It's all down to enforcement. Laws are great, but if you have assholes or idiots enforcing them, then you might as well not have the laws. Government, however, that's a whole other kettle of fish that you probably don't want to hear my opinions on.

Fantine: Laws only work if there's compassion behind them. If there's no compassion, no understanding, laws are a tool for the powerful to oppress the weak.

[gavin62truck]

For Tommy it definitely depends on the circumstances. There have been so many examples in canon where he either blurs the line between lawful and unlawful (I'm not saying 'good' and 'bad') or steps over it completely.

He has two brothers who are cops, and he often leans on them to get him out of petty offenses like parking tickets (oh and drunk and disorderly conduct in public), or asks them for favors to help his friends if they need it (like his coworker who kidnapped his own daughter from an abusive foster care family). So manipulating the law to suit his needs, or evading it through loopholes is a thing. However, Tommy draws the line at murder, because he can't kill anyone, not even those who've been responsible for the deaths of his own friends and family members.

Also, it's been known that firefighters sometimes step in for cops when cops aren't on the scene. So if you're shoplifting the last avocados in the store and thus putting Mexican Night in peril, you'd better watch out, because Lou certainly has his priorities straight.

[justdyedit]

Jess has to agree with that last bit. NEVER mess with the guac!

[bjornwilde]

Ben sees laws as the household rules for society. Sometimes those rules suck but they're still the rules. He will take matters into his own hands if he sees a need and has gotten in trouble with the cops for doing so. Sometimes situations call for bending laws but he will pay the consequences if need be. The SHRA act doesn't count.

Jess sees laws as things to consider and work with if they don't get in the way. She will totally take matters into her own hands, even if things look vague.

Val will act in her conscience and accept the consequences if laws are broken. Laws shouldn't be violated but sometimes situations require it.

Anton follows the Treaty no matter how much he thinks it is flawed, the alternative is worse. I am using the Treaty here as human laws don't come into consideration for him and his peers.

Quinlan, as a padawan and jedi, tends to try and follow laws and sees them as important. But the Jedi code and the greater good are more important than any single planet's judicial system. As a smuggler, laws are obstacles to work around.

Thalia...I'm not sure human, modern law is a consideration for her, any longer. She follows Artemis' law now.

Hank believes in laws and I can't see him actively breaking them. This might be more out of fear of getting in trouble at this point than any sort of morality.

Andrea believes in the laws and rules she agrees with. If she doesn't, then she works around them.

[alexiscartwheel]

I feel like Carol probably pushes Jess to be lawful, and Jess probably pushes Carol to go with her gut. :)

[alexiscartwheel]

Carol is very in favor of law and order, most of the time. She's been known on occasion to go against orders when she really doesn't feel right about following them. But on the whole, she's spent most of her adult life being The Man.

Mary isn't that big of a fan of the law, or at least with English estate law, since according to the law all her father's money and property will be inherited by her fourth cousin just because she happened to be born female.

Stiles's father is the law. Which has made him very, very good at bending it. He is in favor of justice but sometimes laws are... inconvenient? And not very fun?

[cameoflage]

Aradia is not a huge fan of the law. First of all, with no adults on Alternia proper, the laws of the Empire are difficult to enforce for kids. This is probably for the best since Alternian law is as brutal as Alternian everything else. Also, redbloods like her are on the bottom rung of a heavily stratified society; I have no doubt that even when the law isn't explicitly written to fuck lowbloods over, it's enforced more punishingly for them.

However, since first the trolls' empire and then their whole universe was destroyed by the events of canon, this has ceased to be relevant, and there's not much law in the Medium except on Prospit and Derse (and also wherever Terezi goes). This suits Aradia just fine!

Dr Thurlow routinely breaks the law for personal gain, they just don't want to get caught. If they saw someone else breaking the law they wouldn't much care about that part, except possibly to squirrel it away as blackmail material; they might be bothered for other reasons, but illegality wouldn't really enter into it. Thurlow considers the law to be, at best, a way to officially certify that someone's been a rotten bastard and punish them accordingly; they think people should do the right thing because it is the right thing rather than because they'd get in trouble if they didn't. (The amount of corruption in Fallen London's law enforcement does not help.)

They do believe strongly in fair trials, though, and they think society needs to have at least some basic laws to function (largely because you need a way to deal with the rotten bastards and discourage other people from imitating them). But at the end of the day they're Chaotic Good at heart. (Sometimes closer to Chaotic Neutral, but still.) In favour of ethical behaviour and justice, but sceptical about whether the law can deliver on its promises to enforce either of the two, and not interested in upholding the law independently of those things.

[kd7sov]

Felix kind of figures the law is for other people. He'll obey it as long as it doesn't conflict with anything he wants to do. Possibly this will come back to bite him at some point, especially now that he's settled in someone's jurisdiction.

Fluttershy... ... ... ... I really don't know. Sheriff Silver Star is, I believe, the only indication so far that Equestria has laws per se, rather than simply leaders.

[not_my_sandbox]

The law is only inviolate when it is in Amascut's favor, otherwise it ranges from a guideline to unnecessary to unjust.

The law is unnecessary, says Evil Chicken.

The law is why we can have nice things, opines Fairy Fixit, but she adds that the law can be too narrow about who is included in that group called 'we' and wrong headed about what constitutes a 'nice thing'.

[genarti]

Ha! That is an excellent turn of phrase, in Fairy Fixit's description.

[herr_bookman]

Laws are words set down by people in authoritative positions, and thus easily abused and circumvented through interpretation--largely by said people, who have the education and enforcement to back that up. Autor would love to be one of those people.

[vivien]

For Tom Riddle, Lord Ostium of the House of Arch, laws are great - in theory! For other people! The Underside has no law, but Tom strongly approves of guidelines for civilized living. So long as they don't run in opposition of his and Door's needs.

Ingress will be the law once she's a Herald. Since she's from the Underside, however, she'll be much better at understanding all sides of a conflict than others might be.

Bela Talbot follows all the laws. Of course!

Gilderoy would if he could remember them.

[street_sparrow]

The Underside has one law. Don't break the Market Truce (i.e., don't commit violence at the Floating Market). Canon implies very unfortunate consequences for infringement.

[genarti]

*cracking up*

WELL.

Enjolras first, given the intro! He, obviously, is okay with breaking the law. (See also: this icon, from a meeting of the illegal society he heads up, as they plan to overthrow the government.) That's not to say he doesn't value the law; he takes justice very seriously, and feels that law ought to be something which is just, democratically determined (one way or another), and equally applicable to everyone regardless of birth or wealth. He's entirely fine with breaking laws he considers unjust in the service of attempting to bring about that kind of society, though.

Trowa really does not care. He's not the same kind of idealist as Enjolras; Enjolras believes in law, but considers that his own society is fundamentally immoral and unsustainable, whereas Trowa doesn't particularly believe in an ideal legal system either. He believes in fairness, but that's different. Trowa also sees himself as basically outside society, thanks to his childhood. So his attitude is "don't be a jerk, don't take advantage of people who don't make themselves fair game, and don't get caught by people who'll care."

River lives with space smugglers who sidle back and forth across the line of legality. So! There's a lot of variation in both local laws and how they're enforced, too. She's willing to roll with a lot. She sees herself as someone who can and should enforce certain matters of right and wrong, not so much outside the law as irrelevant to it. That said, she does recognize that some laws are important for everyone to obey, and that the general legal system is a valuable one and a major foundation of society.

Regan is law-abiding. (She is, as often, my outlier.) She would break a law if she really had to to protect someone important to her, but she'd agonize about it a lot. She... well. She has in the past reported a loved one for breaking the law! But that also went terribly for everyone concerned, so she would be a lot more reluctant to do that now.

Clare is outside of human society not just in her own eyes, but in her entire world's. The laws she has to obey are the organization's, and there are generally lethal penalties for going against them. Clare can and canonically will do it anyway, but she has to have very strong reason to do so.

[street_sparrow]

Giovanni: For the most part. Laws about such things as duelling aren't as strict in his time, but he doesn't go around wantonly hurting people, and he doesn't steal. The morality laws, on the other hand, he will later in life break with joyous abandon.

Sharpe: Is/has been a thief when necessary, and is a killer both in and out of the military context. However, he only breaks the law when he has to.

Harry Callahan: Totally law-abiding, but does acknowledge that not all laws are just.

Nancy: Steals people's food to keep herself and her little gang of waifs alive. But those people are black marketeers, she feels it's only fair.

Jonathan: ...mostly law-abiding, these days. He's had quite enough of the life of crime.

Michael Carpenter: Would challenge any law he felt was making people suffer, or any law enforcement official abusing their power. Otherwise, law-abiding to a fault.

Roshaun: Obeys the Wizard's Code. Does not necessarily obey planetary laws if they come into conflict with that.

Norrington: Used to be rigidly law-abiding. Then he wasn't. Now it doesn't really apply.

Gavroche: Believes that people have a right to steal if they're starving and the person they steal from can afford it. You don't steal from people as badly off as you are, and you don't steal with violence. These days, he's very opposed to gratuitous violence (it's a wizard thing) except as it applies to Thenardier - and he says he'd only hit him once.

[yakalskovich]

Urquhart: Laws are boring; keep them only to stay out of trouble and not attract attention while preparing for the serious law-breaking. Although, lately, Urquhart has been mostly retired as a law-breaker and hasn't broken the rules any more.

Poins: Laws are very boring; try to avoid having to keep them.

Teja: The law is made to be kept; if you have any problem with it, appeal to authority to have it changed. Try to sponsor debate in the assembly to get it changed. If there is no way that you can be heard legally, then you're living in an unjust system and are justified in overthrowing whoever is in power, with as much general support as you can get. Then, change the law. Not keeping it because you don't like it is not an option. Basically, Teja is your classical positivist.

Margolotta: Laws are interesting guidelines; tweak and twist them as much as you need to get things done.

Hannibal: Laws, yes, probably exist. For other people.

Tamara: What are laws? Can you eat them?

[genarti]

Entertainingly, Teja and Enjolras are basically on the same page here! Although presumably they disagree somewhat on the details of what is and isn't a just system and how you go about overthrowing an unjust one.

[jjprobert]

Jack and Max would both be 'lawful', but... they're willing to do what's necessary to save the world (and defend themselves and their friends, Jack particularly). So, generally, a good thing. Certainly it's a useful guideline, but sometimes it needs to be thrown out the window, for the sake of the survival of the world. Max probably wouldn't take matters into his own hands, but then, particularly as regards violent crime, he doesn't really have the physicality to be able to effectively deal with that kind of situation. Jack would confront someone, but he wouldn't throw the first punch (if it came to that). Odds are good he would throw the last one, though. Circumstances do matter to these two, see: doing what needs to be done, above.

Erik obeys the law. He recognises the law isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing. And, he'd like to have the balls to confront someone if they were breaking it, but that's not him. (That little journey out to the hammer doesn't count) (They weren't actually breaking the law with the detention, but he had a right to request a release, the fake ID totally is irrelevant, right? He didn't hack it together).

Alfred is a law abiding man who would confront someone over obvious wrong doing. On the other hand, in a few short years, he's going to be aiding and abetting a vigilante, so...

Bean: Well, at the moment, he has no regard for the law at all. The fact that he's physically so weak at the moment, though, means he has to talk or think his way out of situations, which generally means avoiding the notice of police and such. As he grows up, he binds himself to the law. He'll engage in a legitimate war between recognized nation states (who needs to recognize them is a point of contention, but, he commits himself one way, so that's not an issue for him), and he'll bring justice to a murderer and abductor who started multiple wars, but he binds himself to the law and the leadership of another, because: a) he could rule the world. b) he doesn't want to. Therefore, as one of the faces of this leadership, anytime he breaks the law would have strongly negative effects on the campaign he's committed himself to.

[lady_bols]

In life, Alex had a complex relationship with the Law. She was bound to uphold it, but she would say she was much more compelled to see justice done. She wanted to think she was a force for good. In her afterlife, she has other issues to deal with first, but she'll get back there. Somehow.

John Silver thinks the Law applies differently to different segments of society, which makes it inherently unjust and thus, not worthy of adhering to.

Olga lives by a different set of Laws, which are constantly stretched and broken in the name of keeping the Truce. Olga thinks Laws are there to make people feel safe. You know, like when you give a child a teddy bear when they're afraid of the dark.

Sherlock thinks the Law is there merely for other people. Something about social contracts and the preservation of civilisation.

[master_bruce]

Bruce is all for the law, in theory. Society needs it to keep running. But when it's riddled with corruption, and the cops are taking bribes from organised crime, and acting in their own interests - well, that's not law at all. And something drastic needs to be done.

Having said that, he recognises that a true lawman is a rare and beautiful thing, and he'll do whatever he can to support them. If every cop were like Jim Gordon, there'd be no need for Batman - and he'd be happy to live in a society protected like that.

[ceitfianna]

Will would like it if the law and justice existed together but they never have in his experience. Those with power wield it, which is why he has no problem doing what's needed to keep those who can't protect themselves safe even if he's an outlaw for it.

Charles would prefer to make the law more just and fair than break though he will if that's the only way to get something work. His preference is to bend the law or persuade because he feels that the law and government can be very effective.

Sameth is a representative of the country and through it the law of the Old Kingdom, he didn't like Petty Court but he went. From what he's seen of his family, the law can work rather well, but it doesn't seem to work as well outside of the Old Kingdom. The laws in Ancelstierre at times seemed excessive to him.

William respects the law but he also has seen it be a weapon used against those who are weaker. He wants to help make the world more just, once he figures out how.

Moist is well acquainted with many laws, he likes to know which ones he's breaking and just how far he can stretch things. The law in his mind is a nice idea but in some ways, he still trusts far more in the power of the lore from Uberwald.

Jane wants to think that the law does well, it worries her how bitter and cynical Tom is about the law and she doesn't think society's rules are all good. Its something she's thinking about.

Demeter believes in the Fates, law is a human construct, one she admires but not one she lives by.

Tumnus finds the law can be powerful and good and he likes helping the Pevensies figure out how best to rule Narnia justly and fairly.

The Pirate King finds the law a nice idea and he has his own rules but he lives by the law of the sea.

[the_gene_genie]

Gene's view of the law is that it is precisely what he says it is. Which is one of the bonuses of living in a world created almost entirely from your own subconscious.

Basically, he hates crime that hurts people. But without crime, he's nothing. And petty crime, he's mostly ambivalent towards, apart from it being a) good for arrest numbers, or b) leading towards a bigger catch. Gene is the law, in his world, so he can't do without it - it's all he ever wanted to be part of, it gives him status, family, and his 'life'. So, yeah. It's pretty important to him. He interprets it in the way that suits him best, and he's not adverse to breaking a few rules to serve the greater good.

[road_to_calvary]

Ahhh, Valjean. Where to start?

Valjean has never denied that he broke the law. He stole a loaf of bread. As a result, the law took nineteen years of his life - and then the rest of it, when it made sure the whole world knew of his past. The law ensured that when he had paid his physical debt to society, he would have to give his future to it as well. Basically, he made a mistake, and the law ruined him.

As a result, he is ambivalent to it. He answers to his conscience, and what he believes is the right thing to do, rather than what the laws of man have written down. Petty law-breaking doesn't bother him in the least - when he comes across Gavroche breaking street lamps on the night of the barricade, he tells him to 'break what you like' - because it is not important, in the grander scheme of God's plan. He chooses morality, and mercy, and compassion, over written codes of justice at all times. If doing the right thing involves breaking the law, then so be it. He will do what is right, and take the consequences. It is the only way he can live with himself - and ironically, it is all down to his own treatment at the hands of the law. Without that, he'd be a person like any other.

[inlovewithwords]

As a rule mine are: "Law and order good, but if it stops me from doing good, FIRE."

Henry generally is a regular law-abiding kid. ...When the law isn't an evil queen. Sorry, Regina.

Eriond thinks law and order are good if they're good for people. But things don't entirely apply to him, he's odd.

Lois works to defend justice and generally believes it could be unbroken. On the other hand, breaking and entering for a story gives her no qualms.

Tavi: oh god. Um. Hypothetically he believes even he should be held accountable. (Note the 'even.') In practice that never works. He has any number of 'acts of treason' on paper all to serve the greater purpose of saving his people. And he gets away with it.

Right now, his entire job is to defend the Realm and serve the Crown, ideally within the boundaries of Crown law. Except he's a spy, he necessarily has to break some laws. For instance, right now he is arguably impersonating a Citizen/high-ranked officer. He broke into the highest security prison and took a prisoner out without a trace, with sketchy help; it was to save Gaius' life. Not too distant future, he'll break in again to stop a war, shattering Crown law in the process. He then comes up with a legal solution to get him off without more than getting yelled at by his grandfather. He sets fire to the rule book and writes his own on the fly.

And then he is the law. So... yeah.

[vance_prime]

Alyx has spent most of her life as a de facto outlaw, simply because she and her dad refused to knuckle under to Combine rule. As a result, she doesn't have much use for laws or regulations, and prefers to follow her conscience instead.

(The irony of the fact that she's now effectively the leader of the free world is not lost in her.)

[never_shall_yield]

A non-flippant Javert answer, then:

The law was everything to Javert. It was his entire purpose for being. He used it to live by, and as an active suppressant for any thought of his own; the rules were written down, they were external, and as long as he followed them, he was Doing Right.

Of course, Victor Hugo states it best:

"This man was composed of two very simple and two very good sentiments, comparatively; but he rendered them almost bad, by dint of exaggerating them,—respect for authority, hatred of rebellion; and in his eyes, murder, robbery, all crimes, are only forms of rebellion. He enveloped in a blind and profound faith every one who had a function in the state, from the prime minister to the rural policeman. He covered with scorn, aversion, and disgust every one who had once crossed the legal threshold of evil. He was absolute, and admitted no exceptions. On the one hand, he said, “The functionary can make no mistake; the magistrate is never the wrong.” On the other hand, he said, “These men are irremediably lost. Nothing good can come from them.”

He lived fifty years of his life this way. And then, Valjean happened for the final time, and showed him that no, 'evil' men can be good. The law is not the absolute of a man. It is possible that the law can be wrong, and men should not be labelled by its standards alone.

Cue, his world shattering. And instead of trying to work with this revelation, and look inside himself, and grow from it - he throws himself into a river.

Basically, augh. The law ruined Valjean's life, and it crushes Javert's. it is...a Thing, in this book.

Yes.